CMartin Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Hi everyone, I have a couple questions for you 20j owners. Just looking for straight up answers of what you all have experienced the last several years on these two items. I know there are many variables that can change everything, just want to know what you guys have experienced. 1 What do you constantly see in your fuel burn? 2 What have you seen on average for your past several annuals? Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 1. Fuel burn 9 to 10 GPH in cruise for 150+ kts. Oil burn 1qt./7hr ( longer on new oil) 2. Nothing major, but replacing the gear rubber donuts. Overhauled the engine at 2,000 hrs. compressions were in the 70s José 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 1984 J with 5200+ TTAF. Fuel 8.7 to 9.5 LOP at 7000'-9000' TAS 150. Flight plan 10 GPH. 1 qt. oil/8 hrs. - Engine 1600 SMOH Average over 5 annuals is $2,500. No maintenance deferred until annual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, CMartin said: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions for you 20j owners. Just looking for straight up answers of what you all have experienced the last several years on these two items. I know there are many variables that can change everything, just want to know what you guys have experienced. 1 What do you constantly see in your fuel burn? 2 What have you seen on average for your past several annuals? Thanks guys! 1 - I burn 8.2-8.5 gph at 140 KIAS. I tend to go slower than others because my main mission is 700 nm flights, so it gives me more reserves on arrival. 2 - My annuals have been relatively benign, the first one about $2500 and the last two around $1700 with no major issues. The big expense was a prop that got condemned on IRAN (I'm still steamed about that), so I suddenly had to buy a new prop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 - I typically cruise above 7k feet, so will just set mixture for desired fuel flow anywhere from 8-10 gph. 2 - Last annual was $1100 with no issues, but that appears to be fairly unusual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 78 J. Cruise at my favorite altitudes of 8500 or 9500. Fuel burn of 9 to 9.5 gph and cruise speed of about 155 to 158. Annuals cost about $2000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMartin Posted October 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Thanks everyone for participating, it's interesting to see what everyone experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 18 hours ago, Bob - S50 said: 78 J. Cruise at my favorite altitudes of 8500 or 9500. Fuel burn of 9 to 9.5 gph and cruise speed of about 155 to 158. Annuals cost about $2000. Power lost to drag is proportional to velocity squared, so you'd need to burn 21% more fuel to go 10% faster. Nice to see that physics works in real life! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Smasher Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 I usually see 160+ TAS, but I fly ROP. 10.5 to 11.5 GPH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 I guess I should have bought a J?! My annuals have been $3k, $9k, $3.5k, & $3k. Not including 2 new cylinders in between annuals. I haven’t been able to owner assist which could save some $$, but the maintenance manual calls for about 40 hours to annual my F, and my AP/IA is $90/hour, so... I think I’m getting a discount at that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ragsf15e said: I guess I should have bought a J?! My annuals have been $3k, $9k, $3.5k, & $3k. Not including 2 new cylinders in between annuals. I haven’t been able to owner assist which could save some $$, but the maintenance manual calls for about 40 hours to annual my F, and my AP/IA is $90/hour, so... I think I’m getting a discount at that! Annual cost is also highly dependent on the area you’re in and if you do or do not use a MSC or shop. The big name MSC’s in california come in at ~$3K for just the annual, where as some A&P IA’s (at least in Oregon) will do one on a Mooney for ~$1800. I haven’t seen shop that will do an annual for less than ~1800 on the west coast, although I’ve seen posts like the ones above that claim 1200-ish. I’m assuming those people did owner assists and are operating with a known and trusted A&P IA... basically a resource/relationship that would need to be built up over years of time. Not sure if that’s something that would be available commercially, or practically, to everyone. I’d say if you can find an A&P IA that will do the annual under $2000, you’re doing very well from a cost standpoint. If you’re paying 3K, you’re probably at a MSC or a larger shop. My Missile, which is basically a J that takes more oil has had annuals ranging from $1800 to 9K. The 9K one required engine removal to refurbish the engine mount and fabrication of some heat shields along with some cowling work. Labor intensive stuff. 90/hr seems like a fair average rate in my local area. At the bigger airports/shops in California and Oregon, rates seem to be over $105/hr based on my subjective exploration. I think LASAR charges $110/hr. Edited October 10, 2018 by M016576 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 Overhauled the engine at 2,000 hrs. compressions were in the 70s Then why did you overhaul it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 3 hours ago, teejayevans said: Then why did you overhaul it? Just to insure no surprises due to fatigue, like cylinders cracks or head separation. Got new cylinders, happy and confident for the next 2,000 hrs. José 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 77 J stock. LOP 8.5-9.3 GPH 149-151 kts usually 1 quart oil per 7 hrs. Annuals have varied. I’ve had two almost 8k annuals. The first was the prebuy annual which I paid for the inspection and the previous owner paid for airworthiness items. The other things fuspensive annual was gear pucks & a new windshield. Most of my annuals have been around $3k averaged. Some cheaper some more expensive. My last annual was about 4K at a reputable and fair MSC... muffler chewed itself up and my gear preloads were significantly out which required re rigging the gear from step one. Other minor aw items. Id say across the fleet MSC annuals probably are about 1:5-2.5 AMU for the inspection and then airworthiness items are on top of that. . If you’ve ever done the work you’ll understand it takes about half a day to pull it apart half a day to put her back together and day or two for the inspection (about 30 hrs labor). There are many opinions about MSC vs independent IA/shops. You can find pearls and duds in both categories. Caution large FBO / corporate shops where some apprentice who may have less experience than me turning wrenches is the person working on my plane. One thing I will advise is to be the owner / operator / fleet manager in a professional capacity for your n=1 Mooney. Being involved means you get good value for the work you are paying for. Always strive to have a professional relationship with your mechanic and value what he does for you because it’s super important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nels Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 Owner assisted annuals should really drop the cost. Removing and reinstalling all inspection panels, cowling, nose cone and belly pans takes about six to eight hours. Probably 800 or so screws. No mechanic in his right mind should complain if you volunteer that service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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