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Flying a J at 2,900 lbs


marcusku

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2 hours ago, marcusku said:

 

When I landed I should've been around 2760 lbs.

The GW increase to 2,900 included revised pages of the POH so I have both the original and modified.  I was looking in the "normal procedures" section under "landing", the original says 71 and revised 80.  For some reason it also changes the gear operating speeds.  They go back down to 132 from 140 and also once down says the max speed stays at 132 instead of 160.  Not sure why those numbers would change.

Probably a shortcut for the manufacturer to change some numbers for margin of safety. Was this published after the Mooney test pilot died in that landing accident?

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On 10/2/2018 at 2:27 PM, Dan at FUL said:

When flying at gross (2740 for my J) I tend to be more aft CG than typical.   All within POH limits, but the difference in gross and normal missions is usually things loaded in the rear seats and the cargo area.  More than the impact of the added weight, I feel this CG difference in landing and in the flare.  Give respect to the others' comments on climb and take-off, this is in addition to that at the end of the flight.  

While what you say is true, I find it reduces effort in the flair. I often land with max nose up trim with just fuel and the front seats occupied. The lighter the the load the the more pronounced the power off nose down tendency. Having the plane loaded up actually makes for a more centered trim envelope.

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16 hours ago, amillet said:

My J is 2900 GW.  POH shows approach speed as 78 kias at gross.

8F3382C1-EB0C-4ABB-84EA-793869D10652.jpeg

Looks like standard Vso * 1.3, which is what I fly final at and slow to Vso * 1.2 as I cross the fence. It sure sounds like the discrepancy is one POH showed 1.2 and the increase in gross weight shows 1.3. 

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1 hour ago, amillet said:

A hangar neighbor showed us the weight and balance sheet for his C172 with 180 HP.  1145 lbs.  200 lbs. more than our 2900 GW J model.  I am impressed.

1145lbs useful load on a cessna 172? the 180HP cessna I used to fly had a useful load somewhere within 850. you sure it wasn't a 182?

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Get used to the entire flight envelope...

Learning to fly with empty seats takes a while...

A similar getting used to flying at MGTW can be expected...

acceleration takes longer, decel takes longer, climb is different, time for everything is different...

be assured, there are no hard lines from being underweight to being overweight... things just get more mushy the closer to the edge of the envelope you get...

Both weight and balance are critical. Don’t do one without doing the other...

Some people have been known to fly the plane with sand bags as passengers to get a feel for the change in dynamics... make sure they are tied in place.

you can actually tell the weight of the people in the back seat based on aircraft performance... or trim setting... or T/O run...  not terribly accurately.

i used to log notes about my flights until all the flight envelope had been used.

Stuff changes quite a bit from empty to full. Get used to it first, then fill the cabin with people.

Avoid filling the cabin with unknowing people and taking off without having the experience of flying near MGTW already...

Add the importance of density altitude to your checklist...

Expect a cabin full of people to have a lot of questions...  be ready to handle the distractions before the stall warning blares...

If the fifth passenger is sitting in the baggage compartment, know that pic has already been posted after the off field experience... yes somebody already did that...

MS has a few pics of planes that managed to depart the runway vertically, momentarily, and then Return to the ground unexpectedly... One in A long Body on a ferry permit, five in an M20C, three in a J...

Take all of your training into account for this type of flight. Flying solo, on a cold day, from sea level, has fewer noticeable limitations... add some weight, heat, and altitude... you want to be on your A game...

-WnB

-T/O distance  for the calculated DA...

-Stall speeds at various angles

-Landing numbers, approach and stall speeds... dont’t add unneeded, excess airspeed for ‘safety’ .  being too fast can be harmful too.

- Use the whole runway... don’t leave a foot behind you... Keith and Patrick’s recommendation... highly educated aviators.

Be doubly knowledgeable about the conditions that day... crosswind pushing you through the turn to final. Increased attitude is setting you up for the stall/spin earlier on than usual...

Make sure your passengers are ready for a go around.  Because they happen...

Plan your flight, fly your plan...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Have fun, this is what Mooneys are built for, be or get ready for it...

another example... The long body has a MGTW that is higher than its MGLW... about an hour’s Worth of fuel...

Best regards,

-a-

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On 10/5/2018 at 2:31 AM, Antares said:

Heavy and with the CG more rearward, you may feel like it wants to have a little pitch oscillation on takeoff. My stall warning routinely chirps in the Rocket on takeoff as I tend to use a lot of backpressure to keep the weight off the nose and then roll forward to build speed in ground effect. If you pay attention, you'll note that the plane will drift left if you're not quick on the right rudder with the P-factor; I guess that's one of the disadvantages of a tethered nosewheel in that you can't have the rudder already applied on the takeoff roll, though I'm not sure how you could have a free castering retractable wheel. Even the P51s tailwheel was tethere; I'm guessing for the same reason. 

didn't the tailwheel on the 51 lock straight with full aft stick???

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