Jump to content

GFC500 Update


81X

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:


You could always buy the GFC 600, it doesn’t require the G5..but it’s more expensive than both the GFC500+G5.
They leverage the functionality of the G5 to make the GFC500 simpler and cheaper...but there is no free lunch.



Tom

If your looking to remove the need for the GAD 29B for autopilot interfaces you could use a GI-275 with a GFC-500 when it gets approved Q2 or Q3 of this year, it still would be cheaper to go G5 though and just deal with the need to have the GAD 29B. On top of that, for our price range the only two solutions I see using the GI-275 is if you just want synthetic vision so bad your willing to pay a 2000 dollar price premium, or you have to replace a CDI or need to install new a GI-106 or GI-109 which the GI-275 is only 500 bucks more then Garmins GI-106. As I stated in the GI-275 thread. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, 201wantabe said:

If your looking to remove the need for the GAD 29B for autopilot interfaces you could use a GI-275 with a GFC-500 when it gets approved Q2 or Q3 of this year, it still would be cheaper to go G5 though and just deal with the need to have the GAD 29B. On top of that, for our price range the only two solutions I see using the GI-275 is if you just want synthetic vision so bad your willing to pay a 2000 dollar price premium, or you have to replace a CDI or need to install new a GI-106 or GI-109 which the GI-275 is only 500 bucks more then Garmins GI-106. As I stated in the GI-275 thread. 

In the GI-275 thread, discussion turned to that it seems as if when including features, necessary add ons and so forth, that an installed GI275 ends up being dramatically more expensive than an installed G5, all said and done.  Although the GI275 seems a lot nicer.

E

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW... I've been talking with BK about the AeroCruz KFC230. They tell me it is available for installation in M20K's today. I didn't ask about other models on the list. One of the limitations at the moment is that it can't talk to or listen (for Attitude data) to an Aspen. If it learns to speak Aspen soon, I will likely upgrade my KFC150 to the AeroCruz. But not until it speaks fluent Aspen. And that would include Altitude data for VS climbs and pre-select.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

In the GI-275 thread, discussion turned to that it seems as if when including features, necessary add ons and so forth, that an installed GI275 ends up being dramatically more expensive than an installed G5, all said and done.  Although the GI275 seems a lot nicer.

E

If they would just make a G5 with SVT I would be extremely happy.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, 201wantabe said:

If they would just make a G5 with SVT I would be extremely happy.

I found the SVT on the ESI 500 not to be very useful.  The display is just too small.  The G5 would be no better.  Also, for SVT you have to constantly update the database, which costs money.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

John have a a search iin google for peter200 and autopilots switches.  He did a lot of research into the little red switch on the yoke and the currents that go through them.  Might be worth your tech guy just pulling the switch on the yoke and testing to see if its gone or not.  

With APs my thought at the moment is to wait a year and let the market settle a bit.  At the moment we only have the gfc500 and nothing else so if for an amu you can fix your kfc150 then I would and then when the market has more choice, make a decision on replacement.  Certainly having to buy ANOTHER garmin box just so their ap works for me is annoying.

Andrew

I agree with you 109%, my fingers are crossed hoping it’s just a switch. I think I saw someone talking about the switch research on pilots of America board, but it was just in a forum. Couldn’t find on google search. Do you have the link to the research on it? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

FWIW... I've been talking with BK about the AeroCruz KFC230. They tell me it is available for installation in M20K's today. I didn't ask about other models on the list. One of the limitations at the moment is that it can't talk to or listen (for Attitude data) to an Aspen. If it learns to speak Aspen soon, I will likely upgrade my KFC150 to the AeroCruz. But not until it speaks fluent Aspen. And that would include Altitude data for VS climbs and pre-select.

I was talking to them as well last summer before they completed certification. But from what I understood their shouldn't be a problem with your Aspen. As I understood, an Aspen EA100 is required to provide the attitude inputs to your existing KFC-150, but this is true for any legacy AP. The Aerocruze 230 is a slide in replacement for the KFC-150 and will continue to work with the same EA100 supplied inputs that you must have now to drive your KFC-150. Perhaps they misunderstood and were talking about Aspen without the EA100? But something isn't adding up. 

The bigger issue to me with the 230 is the cost of replacement servo's? Its one thing to guarantee our old servos for 2 yrs with a 230 install, but I really need to know what the replacement cost and technology used in the new servo's (e.g. brushless DC motors?)  before I can take their solution seriously. Perhaps we can get an idea now if they are also giving the option of installing  yaw-damper servo with the upgrade. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, JohnB said:

I agree with you 109%, my fingers are crossed hoping it’s just a switch. I think I saw someone talking about the switch research on pilots of America board, but it was just in a forum. Couldn’t find on google search. Do you have the link to the research on it? 

If your KFC-150 computer (KC-192) is really shot you do have a couple good options if its not an easy fix. Rather than put about $3K into repairs, which is pretty typical, it probably a much better deal to just go with the slide-in replacement Aerocruze 230 for 10K which will also in theory eliminate expensive servo maintenance for the next 2 yrs and it will raise your planes value accordingly for the AP upgrade. It is certified for your M. Personally I want to know what the new servo's will cost down the road before I jump but my unit is working nicely right now. Your other option of course is to pick up another used/retired KC-192 on eBay and take your chances that it won't need expensive work and last awhile.

Edited by kortopates
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JohnB said:

I agree with you 109%, my fingers are crossed hoping it’s just a switch. I think I saw someone talking about the switch research on pilots of America board, but it was just in a forum. Couldn’t find on google search. Do you have the link to the research on it? 

My symptom was that it wouldn't come on-line and would just sit there and beep until you pulled the breaker, not sure if the M20M uses the same switch. I made a post here, long long ago:

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

I was talking to them as well last summer before they completed certification. But from what I understood their shouldn't be a problem with your Aspen. As I understood, an Aspen EA100 is required to provide the attitude inputs to your existing KFC-150, but this is true for any legacy AP. The Aerocruze 230 is a slide in replacement for the KFC-150 and will continue to work with the same EA100 supplied inputs that you must have now to drive your KFC-150. Perhaps they misunderstood and were talking about Aspen without the EA100? But something isn't adding up. 

I should have clarified. There's nothing wrong with my KFC150 (knock on wood) right now. So to spend for the upgrade, I want the full functionality including IAS climbs, and the removal of my KAS-297. That all requires that the AeroCruz 230 has to talk directly to the Aspen without the EA100 in the middle. 

They tell me this is in the works and should be available in the "near future" or "any day now" depending on who you talk to.

But given the promises made/promises kept ratio of all avionics companies, I've told them I'll hold off until such time as it's all done and working properly before I spend and go forward with the upgrade.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I should have clarified. There's nothing wrong with my KFC150 (knock on wood) right now. So to spend for the upgrade, I want the full functionality including IAS climbs, and the removal of my KAS-297. That all requires that the AeroCruz 230 has to talk directly to the Aspen without the EA100 in the middle. 

They tell me this is in the works and should be available in the "near future" or "any day now" depending on who you talk to.

But given the promises made/promises kept ratio of all avionics companies, I've told them I'll hold off until such time as it's all done and working properly before I spend and go forward with the upgrade.

Ah, I didn't know they were working on direct interface without the EA100, that would be a big improvement since the EA100 doesn't support VNAV. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whew! It was my switch! Went flying today to my avionics shop, and I pushed the red switch a few times and jiggled it a bit just because of what I’ve read here about this switch and.. my KFC 150 came alive! Flew a flawless coupled approach and navigated with the autopilot on two flights. going to have the switch replaced As mine is about to go. Sure it will cost $200 for the switch (which I know if I bought it and did it myself it would be $7) but it is such a relief as I was gearing up to spend at least $15,000 on an autopilot solution and $200 is way better. Problem solved for now thanks everyone! I’ll be waiting for a better autopilot solution for an upgrade one of these days compared to what’s out there, although that Aerocruz 230 looked pretty good,  but not yet...... not yet. ;)

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/27/2020 at 3:02 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I should have clarified. There's nothing wrong with my KFC150 (knock on wood) right now. So to spend for the upgrade, I want the full functionality including IAS climbs, and the removal of my KAS-297. That all requires that the AeroCruz 230 has to talk directly to the Aspen without the EA100 in the middle. 

They tell me this is in the works and should be available in the "near future" or "any day now" depending on who you talk to.

But given the promises made/promises kept ratio of all avionics companies, I've told them I'll hold off until such time as it's all done and working properly before I spend and go forward with the upgrade.

My guess is (and I think you’re saying) the direct connection to the aspen would provide baro corrected altitude and preselect interface replacing the 297/130(a). However, I think the ea100 will still be necessary for attitude information. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, MIm20c said:

My guess is (and I think you’re saying) the direct connection to the aspen would provide baro corrected altitude and preselect interface replacing the 297/130(a). However, I think the ea100 will still be necessary for attitude information. 

File this under "I'll believe it when I see it" but they are telling me that the EA100 will not be needed. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/27/2020 at 8:51 AM, donkaye said:

I found the SVT on the ESI 500 not to be very useful.  The display is just too small.  The G5 would be no better.  Also, for SVT you have to constantly update the database, which costs money.

I’ve flown SVT on the G1000 and the Aspen. On either, I think the most useful feature  is the flight path indicator. 

I did a lot of Part 135 scud running in SE Alaska in the past. The Otters had Chelton displays with SVT but the Beavers had only CNX 80s with planview terrain. The latter was much more useful. In my experience, none of the SVT PFDs have enough fidelity to fly terrain ( which you shouldn’t be doing anyway). So, what are they good for, besides looking cool?

Skip
 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read through  the AeroCruze 230 pilot guide.  It doesn't appear to have envelope protection, and I don't believe the LVL function is as comprehensive as the GFC 500..  Maybe I'm just used to the GFC 500 now, but the 230 seems more complicated to use than the 500, but I could be wrong.  Of course the installation is simpler.  The servos, as many mentioned, could be an issue if they broke after the 2 year warranty period is over.  2 OVHs on a couple of servos and you're into the whole system for the cost of a GFC 500.

One thing about Garmin,  you get a quality product when all is said and done.  Other new age digital autopilots are either vaporware or don't come anywhere near the functionality of the Garmin GFC 500 available for the Mooney.  The older non digital legacy autopilots, while effective in their time, from my experience, really don't hold a candle to the new GFC 500.  LVL, ESP, VNAV, TRK, built in GPSS that allows HDG to intercept, TOGA without AP disconnect---all these things make the GFC 500 the best choice for a Mooney owner, hands down, IMHO.

I believe trying to get all those functions on the cheap with a hodgepodge of parts to interface either legacy autopilots, or less functional digital ones, will lead to headaches, a lighter wallet, and a generally unsatisfying overall result.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/27/2020 at 11:34 AM, 201wantabe said:

If they would just make a G5 with SVT I would be extremely happy.

 

On 1/27/2020 at 11:51 AM, donkaye said:

I found the SVT on the ESI 500 not to be very useful.  The display is just too small.  The G5 would be no better.  Also, for SVT you have to constantly update the database, which costs money.

 

On 1/27/2020 at 12:13 PM, Jerry 5TJ said:

I too elected to do without SV on my ESI500: Display is a bit small for effective SV cues. 

 

+1. I fly a baron with SV aspen and I never use it because it just adds useless clutter.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since this is a GFC 500 thread, could I respectfully request that we not turn it into a battling autopilots discussion. Don was an early adopter and finds the GFC 500 to be great. I’m sure he’s right and I greatly respect his opinion. Probably all of us would be very happy with it, but in some cases we would have to rip and replace too much to install it. I’m interested in the 230 for that reason. There’s a thread around somewhere for it and I’d really be interested in reviving it if people have information to share.

Skip

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Well said @PT20J Skip. I'm just a little envious of all of the GFC 500 installations out there. But I'm just a bit too far down the road with Aspen/Avidyne and it would be painful to back out and go Garmin.

 

I don't know the answer so I'll pose a hypothetical here.  The GFC500 only needs one G5, a GMC507, a GMU11 and a GAD29.  Would it be possible for you to keep your Aspen and install one G5 to run the GFC500?

I don't know if the G5 has to be primary or not.  If so, you could call the G5 primary and the Aspen would be a 'backup' AI.  If not, the G5 could replace a TC, your Aspen would still be primary and you would use the G5 as the brains and an expensive annunciator for the GFC.

Also, I don't know if you can use the Avidyne as input to the GAD29 or not.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I still don't like the limitation of having to have a valid GPS signal to do a coupled approach of any kind in the GFC500. If there's a GPS outage it would be nice to fly a coupled ILS.

Is that just an approval limitation or will the gfc500 actually fail to engage?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.