GFC500 Update

[Marauder]

32 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

So does that mean that the X in TXI is for Xperimental?  Total Experimental Instrument.

 

26 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

The TX means it's only certified for Texas . . lol

I thought the "X" was for Xtra eXpensive.

[LANCECASPER]

Just now, Marauder said:

 

I thought the "X" was for Xtra eXpensive.

Or for the red X's 

[m20kmooney]

TXI is for Texas instruments. It’s for vintage birds to go nicely with their vintage TI30 or similar!

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by m20kmooney

[81X]

On 2/20/2019 at 5:01 PM, khedrei said:

It seems to me like people are trying to compare apples to oranges.  Yes, you need 2 G5's to run this autopilot so it's only fair to include them.  But your old BK autopilot needed an AI to run it correct?  That is a legitimate question, I don't know how the old stuff worked.  I assume you also needed a nice King mechanical HSI as well to be able to track an ILS, or at the very least an indicator with a GS.  What's a good mechanical HSI worth, $10k??  So yes, you are replacing those old vacuum instruments with new electric ones that will last much longer, but to have your old autopilot working, you also NEEDED some form of those instruments so it would be unfair to include the G5's in today's pricing of the Garmin but leave out those things when comparing to your legacy autopilot.  If a person today already has 2 G5's then this autopilot is worth $7k plus an extra trim servo if that's what you want to compare to a KFC200.  Just make sure your BK system has one if you are going to compare it to the GFC500's price with a 3rd servo.

So tell me, what was the cost, 30 years ago of a BK autopilot, a decent vacuum AI and a mechanical HSI worth?  Even if it was $25k installed in 1990 (which it was probably more), that $25K in 1990 dollars is now $40k+ adjusted for inflation.  Forget the above post of the jacked up costs due to low availability, just take into account what $25k back then is worth today by the shear value of a dollar.

For sure you need to price in labour.  $8-10k in labour for a full install I would think.  Extra for Yaw servo.

So yes, material cost is 13k for a 3 axis system including 2 G5's.  I don't quite see how that is a lot of money...  maybe I am missing something.

Again, I go back to my previous post a few pages back and say, if this is not an upgrade from your current system, don't buy it!  You will save $25k.  Personally I'm drooling over it and can't wait to ditch my old single axis Centry that hardly works.  I couldn't sign up fast enough.  Garmin is probably sick of the emails I keep sending them asking for updates.

They are close, flying the wings off of my K lately.  The airplane actually hit a groundspeed of 350 MPH on Thursday in a descent; the jet stream was super strong last week!  

For me, the biggest new benefits are solid state attitude reference, envelope protection, the TOGA function (ever go missed at minimums in IMC, it’s a handful), and also replacing 35 year old wiring. That last point cant be stressed enough. Those BK pins, harnesses, connectors and wiring are just old, bent, and worn out. Sure you can rewire and replace harnesses, but that’s a serious expense for straight maintenance. 

 

[Marauder]

I was at an avionics shop yesterday and saw a number of Bonanzas being retrofitted for GFC600s. Got to see a number of removed autopilot components. A good portion of what was removed was in pretty shoddy shape. I’m surprised there aren’t more AP issues out there.


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[flyboy0681]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

I was at an avionics shop yesterday and saw a number of Bonanzas being retrofitted for GFC600s. Got to see a number of removed autopilot components. A good portion of what was removed was in pretty shoddy shape. I’m surprised there aren’t more AP issues out there.


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Were a majority of them King KAP/KFC units?

[Marauder]

Were a majority of them King KAP/KFC units?

Looked like a couple of them were King and one was an STEC.


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[wcb]

I do not know if anyone has posted this but the Garmin web site has been updated and now shows they are also going to work on all short bodies.  I am still SOOOOOO disappointed that they did not include ALL mid bodies now (F,G,J are basically the same plane when it comes to the overall structure of where servos would be located etc etc etc.)  I do not think I have expressed that disappointment enough.  If only Garmin would actually listen!!!!

GFC 500 Certification Programs Currently In-progress:

Mooney M20

• Models: J, K, M, R, S

 

GFC 500 Certification Programs Planned to Begin in the Next 12-months:

Mooney M20

• Models: M20, A, B, C, D, E, F, G

[Carbon8]

Garmin just released today approval for the F33A, hopefully that means the J soon. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Carbon8

[carusoam]

Carrot vs. stick...?

 

Somehow, I don’t think expressing disappointment is going to help you get what you want.... 

The upside... they covered every M20 ever made... back to the M20A! Which is pretty different from the letters at the end of the alphabet 60 years newer...

That’s a reason to celebrate...

 

Today’s challenge... motivate people at The Garmin business to put your project at the top of the pile.... 

How are you going to achieve that?

 

MSers have been know to write emails to companies... find out what they want from you...

If they need dozens of requests from M20F owners... rally the M20F-Troops!

 

Find the Stec thread for examples....

Take your future into your own hands! That’s what makes MS pilots different than the other pilots....

 

or sit back and blame big G... see how long the project gets dragged out....

Somebody has to put people on the project to write a lot of documents and fill in a lot of data... no matter how alike the planes actually are...

If you want to be heard.... keep the thoughts positive... the other thing business managers like.... the ability to sell stuff to customers... show that you know some customers that are interested in this vender’s stuff....

The bigger the carrot, the better your chances become...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[wcb]

4 hours ago, carusoam said:

 

 

Somehow, I don’t think expressing disappointment is going to help you get what you want.... 

 

I know and have been in contact with them many times over the last year.  If only there were another option!!!!!! ..... OHHHHHHHH can you say TRUTRAK (I know, I know not quite the same) (and yes others that are more $$$ like STEC)???

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, wcb said:

I know and have been in contact with them many times over the last year.  If only there were another option!!!!!! ..... OHHHHHHHH can you say TRUTRAK (I know, I know not quite the same) (and yes others that are more $$$ like STEC)???

Garmin will get through these additional models fairly quickly. They have a motivation to do so since TruTrak and STEC are potential nimblers of their market share.

[NJMac]

I was planning on a trutrac and aspen in May with my annual. Definitely waiting for Garmin now. Would much rather have the approach capabilities, even if it needs GPS signal. Today is good news.

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[khedrei]

Great news indeed. I'm happy for all the short body owners. Hopefully it doesnt actually take 12 months to start the program. 

Rally the troops. Flood them with emails!

[donkaye]

3 hours ago, khedrei said:

Great news indeed. I'm happy for all the short body owners. Hopefully it doesnt actually take 12 months to start the program. 

Rally the troops. Flood them with emails!

It was quite a disappointment when I found out yesterday that the M20M, M20R, and M20S have NOT been approved by Gamin for installation, yet.   I even called Garmin to confirm.  I was ready, willing, and able get it installed immediately.

[carusoam]

Bombard Trek Lawler with emails, until he visits MS more often....  @TrekLawler

Trek is the usual Garmin contact that has social media as part of his responsibility...

Best regards,

-a-

[khedrei]

Am I really the first one to mention it on here??

GFC-500 now certified on M, R and S models. 

Not sure when they updated their website but just got the email from my avionics guy a few minutes ago. Hopefully they will finish the K soon so mine can go in. 

[hypertech]

They seem to have announced it via Facebook photo post.

I'd love to get one, but I can't till they solve the FIKI problem.

[carqwik]

Anyone with a clue as to $$ involved for ripping out KFC-150 and installing GFC-500?  Labor and parts minus resale value of BK parts?

Edited March 20, 2019 by carqwik

[gsengle]

My guess is not approved for FIKI airplanes...


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[ArtVandelay]

Anyone with a clue as to $$ involved for ripping out KFC-150 and installing GFC-500?  Labor and parts minus resale value of BK parts?

I would not expect much from the parts. I’ve only heard about one installation taking 50 hours, it wasn’t a Mooney so I didn’t pay close attention, but they did say lack access to the servos was a big problem.
Anyone know where the aileron servo is installed on the J?


Tom

[donkaye]

7 hours ago, khedrei said:

Am I really the first one to mention it on here??

GFC-500 now certified on M, R and S models. 

Not sure when they updated their website but just got the email from my avionics guy a few minutes ago. Hopefully they will finish the K soon so mine can go in. 

It must have just switched to approved because I checked early this morning and it wasn't on the approved list.  I'm getting it installed as soon as I can get a slot at the avionics shop.  I'm going with all 4 servos to see just what kind of improvement a yaw damper servo makes to the already stable M20M.  Good riddance to the KFC 150 and wing rock.

[khedrei]

Pretty sure the servo on my K is in the left wing near where the push rod on the bottom of the aileron enters the wing. 

My avionics guy is guessing 40 hours per servo for mine. Seems a bit high but we will see. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by khedrei

[ArtVandelay]

Pretty sure the servo on my K is in the left wing near where the push rod on the bottom of the aileron enters the wing. 
My avionics guy is guessing 40 hours per servo for mine. Seems a bit high but we will see. 

Per servo?!?


Tom

[kpaul]

27 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I would not expect much from the parts. I’ve only heard about one installation taking 50 hours, it wasn’t a Mooney so I didn’t pay close attention, but they did say lack access to the servos was a big problem.
Anyone know where the aileron servo is installed on the J?


Tom

I have a Century 41 A/P but, in this pic you can see the rivets that were added for the servo bracket (circled in red).