Completely Confused

[gsxrpilot]

I think certificated piston single would cover it.

[Bob_Belville]

Lance Phillips is no longer listed as Mooney's Marketing Manager.

[Danb]

Lance was relieved of his duties the day after Oshkosh ended

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, Danb said:

Lance was relieved of his duties the day after Oshkosh ended

Hopefully the osh thread did not cause that...

[Ftlausa]

As someone else commented, the Ultra might actually be a knot or two slower than the Type S due to the extra step.  I flew a demo with Lee and he mentioned a number of changes from the Type S to the Ultra, but I don't recall him claiming a speed increase.  That said, we were easily making 230 kts at 17.5k on the demo flight.  So, the plane is wicked fast.  We pulled the power back to Ovation speeds, and we were making 180 kts at 17.5k on 13 gph with a very nice range map showing.  Of course, the Type S should do the same, so I think it comes down to whether you want to spend the extra $$ to get the Ultra.    

[Niko182]

The ultra comes with 300 hour 3 year warrenty full free maintainance. It makes the 200k diference smaller. Also new and nicer panel. Wider cabin. 2 doors. They also made the panel look really bueatiful all around.

[mike_elliott]

48 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

The ultra comes with 300 hour 3 year warrenty full free maintainance. It makes the 200k diference smaller. Also new and nicer panel. Wider cabin. 2 doors. They also made the panel look really bueatiful all around.

They also provide transition training as part of the package.

[mike_elliott]

54 minutes ago, Ftlausa said:

As someone else commented, the Ultra might actually be a knot or two slower than the Type S due to the extra step.  I flew a demo with Lee and he mentioned a number of changes from the Type S to the Ultra, but I don't recall him claiming a speed increase.  That said, we were easily making 230 kts at 17.5k on the demo flight.  So, the plane is wicked fast.  We pulled the power back to Ovation speeds, and we were making 180 kts at 17.5k on 13 gph with a very nice range map showing.  Of course, the Type S should do the same, so I think it comes down to whether you want to spend the extra $$ to get the Ultra.    

They have made a few speed improvements to the Ultra over the S, along with the Lexus like interior, the NXI and the 2nd wider doors. How much faster? I dont know right off hand, but next time I get a chance......

[Hank]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

They have made a few speed improvements to the Ultra over the S, along with the Lexus like interior, the NXI and the 2nd wider doors. How much faster? I dont know right off hand, but next time I get a chance......

We'll be waiting! Find out this weekend, we will all be watching! 

[kortopates]

I recall Gretchen, past Mooney CEO when the early Acclaim Type S debuted, showed us that the factory demo bird had no problem doing a bit over 240 kts and beating book numbers.

But the Acclaim as a "Turbo Normalized" engine was pure marketing aimed at those uncomfortable of getting into a Turbo'd aircraft because of all the things different pilots may be concerned about such as the added complexity, increased cost of maintenance and ownership etc. The Acclaim uses a TSIO-550-G that TCM classifies as a turbo engine complete with dual turbo chargers, inter-coolers and automatic waste gates. They tried too early on thinking since they de-rated the engine for installation into the Mooney from 310 to 280 HP that they could tell prospective owners that it was only required a relatively little boost. Well the boost didn't decrease by de-rating the engine - the RPM did. To the best of my knowledge, the factory didn't persist very long in referring to it as a turbo-normalized engine. Perhaps because they looked pretty stupid if their prospective buyer had or later spoke to their competitors at Cirrus who did offer their SR22 with both both a TCM Turbo engine and a TAT Turbo Normalized engine and learned what the differences where. (Cirrus only offers the TCM TSIO-550-K turbo option and the NA IO-550-N as options today).

But I still hear (as recently as AOPA Santa Fe) sales folks tell prospective owners its "Like turbo normalized" because its only boosted by a few inches. But a Turbo Normalized engine is entirely different. Its begins with its NA counter part engine, such as the IO-550-G and adds on the single or dual turbo chargers limited to 30" - i.e. no boost above sea level - but the same efficient 8.5 to 1 compression cylinders. But all "turbo" engines, including the TSIO-550-G , use lower compression pistons at 7.5 to 1 since they are operating at higher boost than sea level and need to preserve their detonation margin with lower compression pistons. 

Incidentally the earlier 280HP Ovations also installed de-rated IO-550-G, but the current offering is using the full 310HP of the -G engine.

[exM20K]

On 9/23/2018 at 12:53 PM, MIm20c said:

The top prop is the same. If you have an older plane, pre 2005?, that will need to be upgraded as well. 

Prop is the same as Acclaim Type S only.

Ovation 310 HP STC is available from Mooney.

Acclaim 310HP STC is available from Bob Minnis.  Mooney elected not to buy that one from the author, and I've heard several explanations for this, none of which sound sensible.

-de

Edited September 24, 2018 by exM20K

[mike_elliott]

Hartzel is working on the Acclaim prop for the Bravo. Should be available next spring. Ill bet thats worth 7-8 kts

[carusoam]

A few choices for the OP...

Prop... the original O came with a three blade Maccauley.... Props have evolved with time...

Hartzel has the TopProp, that is available with three different blade designs.... thick, thin, and composite...

Latest Acclaims are using the thin blades.  Lighter in weight, but less meat for OHs....

MT has the best known experience for composite props on Mooney planes... much lighter in weight and quieter for those in Europe...

 

Engine...  The IO550... The Original O came with the (g) version. Max rpm was set at 2500 rpm. Producing 280hp capable of getting off the ground in 1200’, lightly loaded...

The O3 used Bob Minnis’ work and combined the TopProp and 2700 rpm to produce a Standing O... yeah... a Standing Ovation!... cause that’s what you want to give when you leave the ground in 800’ instead....  

One of the Best conversations you can have is with Bob Minnis.  When you are spec’ing out your new power plant... that man knows all the boxe, and can help you with the choices that make sense for you...

So...

The nose of the Long Body is nearing the edge of getting heavy... a continuous WnB challenge... two choices that minimize the nose being near heavy....

• The thin bladed TopProp
• The IO550(n)

The (n) has an updated cooling fin design on the cylinders. And loses a couple of pounds per cylinder this way...

There must be a reason Mooney is still delivering the (g).

When it comes to technical decisions, I’m still a fan of going to the technical source... wether it was Bill Wheat back in the day, or Bob Minnis... those few minutes of phone call are going to be a memorable experience... take good notes... 

If going O... take the IO550(n) with the thin bladed TopProp... (my experience)

If Going Acclaim... Consider the IO550(n) with the four bladed MT... (not my experience)

The limitations of my experience of the (n) in an Acclaim is CHTs... I can’t tell much about cooling improvements with the (n)’s cylinders in the FLs... be sure to check in with somebody that has the experience to share....

PP thoughts only, not an Acclaim driver... maybe one day...

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

6 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Hartzel is working on the Acclaim prop for the Bravo. Should be available next spring. Ill bet thats worth 7-8 kts

If only Lycoming would deliver a curvy balanced pipe system for the Bravo’s Turbo/intake system... that and the thin TopProp would deliver the +7-8....

This would allow for a wider range of operating conditions, LOP... great engine, with the ability to become even better...

This would be a very expensive addition to a really expensive OH...

Thinking out loud...

-a-

[amillet]

14 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Of course you’re right.   

It’s all in the details:   Buzz Aldrin claims he was the first man named Buzz to walk on the moon. 

He might want to check with Buzz Lightyear

[wcb]

PICK ME! I will spend your money for you!

 

Go Factory NEW!  It simply makes you cooler.  As they say "the one with the most toys wins"... I will add the one with the coolest toys wins.  All that coming from a guy that owns a 76F which means I am nowhere near the leaders but happy to be in the game.

[mike_elliott]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

This would be a very expensive addition to a really expensive OH.

Anthony, the OH on the TSIO540 Lyc isnt any worse than it is for the Conti 550. But they are both expensive. 

[thinwing]

And with the conti,you get to do the cylinders twice 

[Niko182]

35 minutes ago, thinwing said:

And with the conti,you get to do the cylinders twice 

im at 1600 without switching any cylinders on an IO-550G

[thinwing]

Sounds like you got a good one

[gsxrpilot]

I'm at 1500 on my TSIO360MB and all original cylinders.  

I'm of the belief that it's how the engine is flown and also how often.

[Piloto]

No matter how much extra speed or doors you have on the Acclaim you still have to pee on a bottle and have it emptied at the FBO, embarrassing and time consuming.

I would rather have a pilot relief tube than the extra door on the Ultra. And while you empty the bottle at the FBO I am already on my way out on the crew car.

José

Edited September 25, 2018 by Piloto

[Niko182]

16 minutes ago, Piloto said:

No matter how much extra speed or doors you have on the Acclaim you still have to pee on a bottle and have it emptied at the FBO, embarrassing and time consuming.

I would rather have a pilot relief tube than the extra door on the Ultra. And while you empty the bottle at the FBO I am already on my way out on the crew car.

José

Personally, I have always been a fan of turning on the autopilot, slowly down to 90 knots indicated, opening the window and doing it the proper way. you have a pilot relief tube. I have a pilot relief window.

Edit: don't take me seriously please. Its a joke.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Niko182

[kmyfm20s]

13 minutes ago, Piloto said:

No matter how much extra speed or doors you have on the Acclaim you still have to pee on a bottle and have it emptied at the FBO, embarrassing and time consuming.

I would rather have a pilot relief tube than the extra door on the Ultra. And while you empty the bottle at the FBO I am already on my way out on the crew car.

José

Not emabarassing, Gatorade in and looks like Gatorade out. Just don’t take a sip on accident before you throw it away;) 

[Piloto]

1 minute ago, Niko182 said:

Personally, I have always been a fan of turning on the autopilot, slowly down to 90 knots indicated, opening the window and doing it the proper way. you have a pilot relief tube. I have a pilot relief window.

 

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