MBDiagMan

Does an F Nose Bounce more than a C?

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31 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Full flaps also needs more trim.  If you do a shove all levers forward for a go around, you risk a departure stall with all that trim in.

With full flaps, there is a lot of nose up trim, and on the go around you need to be ready to push the yoke forward firmly.  However, it is certainly doable, and I usually will just keep the yoke forwards for the first 5-6 seconds or so of the go around to recombobulate before messing with trim, gear or anything else.  Even with gear down and full flaps, it'll still start climbing.  Once my brain starts working again, only then I'll start working on the go-around checklist.  It's not like my arms are going to give out in  5-6 seconds, even though I have pretty flabby triceps.

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Full flaps, full up trim, gear down... Abort and Go Around

Shove Black, Blue, Red to the firewall (Blue and Red are likely already there) and just put the yoke where it needs to be. It will certainly take some effort but I can hold the yoke in place while my thumb holds the trim switch nose down. With the free hand move the flaps to take off position and then get the gear. All of this can be done in just a few seconds. I did it recently on a flight review.

Just fly the plane, don't be a passenger. 

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Had my first 3 hours of transition training in my new Mooney M20F today. Due to 1500’ ceilings, we did circuits, practicing constant speed prop procedures, landings, short field, and soft field take offs.

If I could summarize....No news here. The approach angle and speed are of utmost importance. Get the descent down, control  altitude with throttle. Hit the runway threshold, pull back to idle, and flare just before touchdown, look down the runway and hold off.

I was actually surprised how “easy” it was to land the M20F! Kept hearing horror stories on here about how much they float. They do, but I really didn’t see an issue with the dreaded “I’m going to need more runway” problem I thought I was going to have. 

Yes, I did bounce one out of the 17 or so landings.... I was too shallow on approach and had to really pull nose up to land on the mains. Being too high. BOING!

My FI was very good at explaining that you need to “worry about approach angle first, speed second”. It really made a difference after that. 

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4 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

Half flaps?  I am itching to land with NO flaps, but I have an untold number of experienced pilots telling me I need to learn to land with full flaps.

I generally drop half flaps on downwind, then adjjst flaps as required in final. My handful of F landings were mjch better with full flaps.

But you need to figure out no flap landings, too, just in case. Did one on ny Flight Review this spring, into my 3200' home field.  ;)   Give it some time and practice, you'll figure it out. 

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On 9/14/2018 at 11:47 AM, Bob_Belville said:

I suspect that the biggest difference between your C landings and your F bouncing is the flaps, not the extra leg room in the rear seats. IOW, using full flaps in the short body would have given you similar issues. It's all about speed. With full flaps you simple have to get rid of the excess speed before touch down or our stiff legged gear will bounce you up. Under no circumstances should you push the nose down to "plant it on the runway". That's a recipe for a prop strike.

FWIW, with full flaps in my E the nose trim is full up when landing unless I have rear seat passengers and a more rearward CG.

100% agree.  I pump in all four pumps full flaps in my E on turn to final.  I am rolling and rolling and rolling trim wheel to compensate for the full flaps.  Power off when runway made and “Paul it” down the runway holding it off until SHE wants to land.  Not a secret.  A necessity.  I carried extra speed on landing in Milwaukee last weekend due to controller saying keep speed up and tower turning me away 70 degrees when I was about 20 degrees off being lined up.  I was high as a resul, but had a ton of runway and the FBO was closer the farther down it I got.  No worries, but I still was fast when mains planted.  Still wanted to fly.  Didn’t need to apply power as bounce was minimal.  I DID hold the nose off and let the speed bleed until mains and then nose settled.  NEVER force the nose down on a MOONEY EVER.

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I am SO grateful for all the comments and discussion in this thread!

I got caught up on things and this morning had what is supposed to be the last decent aviation weather for a few days.  I scrubbed off some good landings, some being even better than good.  I might make a Pilot after all.  Not only did I get in some good landings, but I think that studying and thinking managed to prevent the development of bad habits.

Thanks to all!

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5 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

I am SO grateful for all the comments and discussion in this thread!

I got caught up on things and this morning had what is supposed to be the last decent aviation weather for a few days.  I scrubbed off some good landings, some being even better than good.  I might make a Pilot after all.  Not only did I get in some good landings, but I think that studying and thinking manage to prevent the development of bad habits.

tpThanks to all!

Nice work!  Sports psychologists talk about visualization as part of preparation when you cannot actually practice.  My wife thinks it strange that before a flight, I'll sit in our office chair and visualize and talk out various scenarios, procedures and emergencies.

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Nice work!  Sports psychologists talk about visualization as part of preparation when you cannot actually practice.  My wife thinks it strange that before a flight, I'll sit in our office chair and visualize and talk out various scenarios, procedures and emergencies.


The one sports coach I had assigned to me asked me if I knew the difference between the top 50 golfers in the world. When I said I didn't, he said "about 10 yards". His point was that they all could hit the ball about the same and the successful ones were the ones who could win the head game in the different phases of the game.


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