M20E - ADS-B / Panel Modifications

[bill98]

Eventually going to need ADS-B. 

Have Garmin 430W. The Aspen but an old Narco AT150. 

What is cheapest way for ADS-B need to include install too. 

UAvionix Beacon or Strobe ~ 2k

I have a Sentry already. 

For the Panel ADS-B solutions - what is required for a Garmin or Stratus to go in place of the Narco . 

 

Also..

Does anyone know how to have the Fuel Quantity gauges backlit? As of now it's from the red overhead lights on the ceiling (anyone also know how I can replace them with LED so they aren't 38583 degrees F to the touch)?

Feel free to provide your recommendation on how you'd have the panel arranged. 

The On/HdG/off switch is for the NAV1/GPS / Brittain Autopilot tracking paired with the Aspen 

I'd like to move that up top by the gear lights along with the EFIs master, EGT switch, outside temp gauge, mute and ALT WARN LIGHT thus getting panel space above the radio. 

[MIm20c]

330es?

[bill98]

24 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

330es?

Is it plug N play?

[Marauder]

Eventually going to need ADS-B. 
Have Garmin 430W. The Aspen but an old Narco AT150. 
What is cheapest way for ADS-B need to include install too. 
UAvionix Beacon or Strobe ~ 2k
I have a Sentry already. 
For the Panel ADS-B solutions - what is required for a Garmin or Stratus to go in place of the Narco . 
 
Also..
Does anyone know how to have the Fuel Quantity gauges backlit? As of now it's from the red overhead lights on the ceiling (anyone also know how I can replace them with LED so they aren't 38583 degrees F to the touch)?
Feel free to provide your recommendation on how you'd have the panel arranged. 
The On/HdG/off switch is for the NAV1/GPS / Brittain Autopilot tracking paired with the Aspen 
I'd like to move that up top by the gear lights along with the EFIs master, EGT switch, outside temp gauge, mute and ALT WARN LIGHT thus getting panel space above the radio. 

I would look at the L-3 2500 series. It will interface with your Aspen and provide traffic and weather on a number of different iPad apps.


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[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, bill98 said:

What is cheapest way for ADS-B need to include install too. 

UAvionix Beacon or Strobe ~ 2k

I have a Sentry already. 

For the Panel ADS-B solutions - what is required for a Garmin or Stratus to go in place of the Narco . 

You have some nice equipment in your panel.

Although the Sentry is a portable ADS-B in for a tablet it's still nice to have it on the panel as well.

I would do either a Lynx L-3 or a Garmin GTX345 so you can have weather and traffic on your display(s). Looking at where your Narco transponder is, it would probably require less panel surgery to go with the GTX345 since it is slightly smaller, but if you could fit the Lynx in, that's a great transponder. Since you already have a 430W you don't have to install another GPS antenna.

If you are dead set on spending less you could do the GTX335 for $1000 less, but I think down the road you would regret not spending the extra. But for sure you should do it around the transponder and not just the Uavionix. The Uavionix would have been a decent solution if you had a newer solid state transponder already.

If you went with the Uavionix you know what would happen, right?  About a week after the install the Narco transponder would go Tango Uniform.

[MBDiagMan]

Are you simply looking for compliance or do you want ADS-B IN also?

I put in a GTX 345.  It was expen$ive, but now that I am past the sticker shock, I am glad I spent the money.  If I had the decision to do over I would look harder at the LYNX 9000 or whatever it is.  It was a couple thousand dollars more at the time, but now it can be had for essentially the same price as the 345.

[RLCarter]

2 hours ago, bill98 said:

(anyone also know how I can replace them with LED so they aren't 38583 degrees F to the touch)?

@Raptor05121 converted his to LED’s and did a write up on the process, by the way at 38583°f I would change them too

[bill98]

22 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

You have some nice equipment in your panel.

Although the Sentry is a portable ADS-B in for a tablet it's still nice to have it on the panel as well.

I would do either a Lynx L-3 or a Garmin GTX345 so you can have weather and traffic on your display(s). Looking at where your Narco transponder is, it would probably require less panel surgery to go with the GTX345 since it is slightly smaller, but if you could fit the Lynx in, that's a great transponder. Since you already have a 430W you don't have to install another GPS antenna.

If you are dead set on spending less you could do the GTX335 for $1000 less, but I think down the road you would regret not spending the extra. But for sure you should do it around the transponder and not just the Uavionix. The Uavionix would have been a decent solution if you had a newer solid state transponder already.

3

I had heard through the grapevine that my transponder won't past the next IFR cert as it isn't producing enough power. But I can find a Narco for super cheap.

 

I am worried about cost of install. 

I got a quote for an L3 and with install it was 7-8k.I work with A&P's and IA's so the uAvionix could be installed and signed off in 30 minutes to an hour and a new (used but new to the plane) Narco installed quickly too without any wiring. I am wondering what is behind the strip with the Registration on it. Other holes to feed a lamp or switch through? What about lighting up the fuel gauges. Is there any way to get lighting right the glass that is just for that gauge. Not one from overhead but on the panel directly above.

[LANCECASPER]

2 minutes ago, bill98 said:

I had heard through the grapevine that my transponder won't past the next IFR cert as it isn't producing enough power. But I can find a Narco for super cheap.

 

I am worried about cost of install. 

I got a quote for an L3 and with install it was 7-8k.I work with A&P's and IA's so the uAvionix could be installed and signed off in 30 minutes to an hour and a new (used but new to the plane) Narco installed quickly too without any wiring. I am wondering what is behind the strip with the Registration on it. Other holes to feed a lamp or switch through? What about lighting up the fuel gauges. Is there any way to get lighting right the glass that is just for that gauge. Not one from overhead but on the panel directly above.

In Fredericksburg TX you can get a GTX345 installed for $6000 out the door. Not sure about the Lynx, but not much difference if you don't have to install the GPS antenna since you can split the gps antenna going to your 430W.

[bill98]

What all would go into installing a 327 in the spot of the Narco? This is the one aspect I have yet to grasp with GA Avionics. What can I literally just put in the exact spot of the Narco and plug in the previous power source and antenna source? (not sure if possible)

$6000 is still 3800 more than a used Narco + UAvionix or 3000 more than GTX327 + Uavnionix. (I promise I am not meaning to sound condescending or whiny) 

[MIm20c]

4 minutes ago, bill98 said:

What all would go into installing a 327 in the spot of the Narco? This is the one aspect I have yet to grasp with GA Avionics. What can I literally just put in the exact spot of the Narco and plug in the previous power source and antenna source? (not sure if possible)

$6000 is still 3800 more than a used Narco + UAvionix or 3000 more than GTX327 + Uavnionix. (I promise I am not meaning to sound condescending or whiny) 

If you are thinking about a 327 you might as well get a 330 and have it wired up so you can just slide a 330es later on to meet the requirement. 

[bill98]

13 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

If you are thinking about a 327 you might as well get a 330 and have it wired up so you can just slide a 330es later on to meet the requirement. 

The time/cost of install of a garmin Unit is what I am trying to figure out. If I received a free 327 or 330 - how much  work goes into making it work in the slot where the Narco currently is.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but a replacement Narco just slides in .

[JeffMirs]

Giving your money to Garmin is like sending it to the enemy.  Get a Stratus.  Much better customer service, cheaper, not locked into the Garmin/Jeppesen ecosystem...

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, bill98 said:

What all would go into installing a 327 in the spot of the Narco? This is the one aspect I have yet to grasp with GA Avionics. What can I literally just put in the exact spot of the Narco and plug in the previous power source and antenna source? (not sure if possible)

$6000 is still 3800 more than a used Narco + UAvionix or 3000 more than GTX327 + Uavnionix. (I promise I am not meaning to sound condescending or whiny) 

It all depends on how many times you wanna go in there. Let's say you buy a GTX 330 for $1000 and spend $1500-$2000 to have it installed. Then later you slide it out and sent it off for the ES upgrade for $1200 and maybe $400 for to the shop for removal, install and run the WAAS position source over to it, and re-certify it. You have $4200-$4700 into it and you have a used transponder with no ADS-B in capability. Then every time you fly it since you already have a Gamrin 430W and an Aspen you wish it displayed weather and traffic on the panel . . . and of course it won't.

If you can do it you are better off in the long run just to bite the bullet and do it right once.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, JeffMirs said:

Giving your money to Garmin is like sending it to the enemy.  Get a Stratus.  Much better customer service, cheaper, not locked into the Garmin/Jeppesen ecosystem...

In my opinion with the nice displays he has in his panel, the Stratus transponder is too expensive for what he would get. They are $2500 and it costs the same to install them as any other transponder. It's a re-branded Trig transponder that won't display on his other displays. Yes it will work with Foreflight but so will the GTX345, which also works with Garmin Pilot and it has a built in AHRS for the tablet programs.

[carusoam]

Letting the Narco go will probably save you money in the long run...

See what @Alan Fox has for sale in the used transponder arena...

Best regards,

-a-

[bill98]

23 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

In my opinion with the nice displays he has in his panel, the Stratus transponder is too expensive for what he would get. They are $2500 and it costs the same to install them as any other transponder. It's a re-branded Trig transponder that won't display on his other displays. Yes it will work with Foreflight but so will the GTX345, which also works with Garmin Pilot and it has a built in AHRS for the tablet programs.

What kind of wiring is required to install the Garmin? I know 3 mechanics on duty at our Avionics shop that trouble shoot wiring running through lavs, around cargo holds up to the top of the vertical stabilizers on much larger aircraft.

What is required to make the Garmin go into the empty Narco hole?

 

also

Does anyone have any recommendation/opinion/preference on how if they had this same equipment setup, how they would have the panel layout configured?

[carusoam]

Bill are your familair with installation manuals?  Each radio will have one that is separate from the user manuals.

They are very specific answers to your question.  Garmin will typically make it difficult to get a copy for some boxes... probably protecting their service partners...

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Hmmm....

with panel space at a premium...

How about a GTX345R.  R for remote mount... controlled through the GTN?

PP ideas only could be an unusable idea in reality...

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

17 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Hmmm....

with panel space at a premium...

How about a GTX345R.  R for remote mount... controlled through the GTN?

PP ideas only could be an unusable idea in reality...

Best regards,

-a-

That would work on a GTN 650 or 750 but he has a GNS430W.

[MBDiagMan]

On 9/10/2018 at 1:45 PM, bill98 said:

Eventually going to need ADS-B. 

Have Garmin 430W. The Aspen but an old Narco AT150. 

What is cheapest way for ADS-B need to include install too. 

UAvionix Beacon or Strobe ~ 2k

I have a Sentry already. 

For the Panel ADS-B solutions - what is required for a Garmin or Stratus to go in place of the Narco . 

 

Also..

Does anyone know how to have the Fuel Quantity gauges backlit? As of now it's from the red overhead lights on the ceiling (anyone also know how I can replace them with LED so they aren't 38583 degrees F to the touch)?

Feel free to provide your recommendation on how you'd have the panel arranged. 

The On/HdG/off switch is for the NAV1/GPS / Brittain Autopilot tracking paired with the Aspen 

I'd like to move that up top by the gear lights along with the EFIs master, EGT switch, outside temp gauge, mute and ALT WARN LIGHT thus getting panel space above the radio. 

IMHO, this panel deserves a GTX345 or a Lynx9000.

My $0.02,

[Marauder]

IMHO, this panel deserves a GTX345 or a Lynx9000.
My $0.02,

I agree.




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[Jerry 5TJ]

More screens = More better. 

[Igor_U]

Don't you just love how other people want to spend YOUR money??

Anyway, I have same Narco Xponder and just bought GTX335; got a Aircraft Spruce limited time kit for $3k that included new miniature altitude encoder (so I can dump my old Narco from avionics shelf) that goes on the back plate, GPS antenna and their home made wire harness. Have a look at the install manual online but I don't think it takes much work to do and harness is basically made by A. Spruce. For basic Stratus install my avionics shop said about 10h of labor and GTX335 should be the same. I would need to replace/install new coax cable as well.

New tray install shouldn't take much time as I believe mounting holes are the same.

I plan to do this with my IA and might be a first step of doing myself a new GPS/Navcom install with double G5. Manuals are available, wire harnesses could be done at home at your own leisure to minimize downtime...  

I understand your strategy of finding another Narco transponder to slide in might work but eventually those will not be able to get serviced. My unit was repaired some5-6 years ago and had to go to a shop (limited number) that could do it, American Avionics at KBFI. They are no more so I'm not really sure who would repair it next time.

 

Good luck with your decision.

 

 

 

[MBDiagMan]

Hey!  I am quite skilled at spending other people’s money.:)