Engine Oil Quick Drain removal

[spectre6573]

Gents,

 

When I got my bird, it came with an engine oil quick drain and I have noticed there might be a little bit of a seep from it at times. Reading all the horror stories about BAM! oil gone because of these things, I decided it was time to pull that thing out on the oil change. Well, it said no. Its made of brass and when I tried to get some torque on it, the brass started to round on the edges. Instead of unleashing a possible painful work scope, I decided to research a smarter way to get it out and replace it. 

Any tips?

This attempt was not made after bringing the engine to running temp for the oil change since living in AZ and it was 110 degrees outside, the oil flows fine. 

[Andy95W]

[spectre6573]

Lol yup that was my next workscope. 

[ArtVandelay]

I don’t think you want to put a torch on the quick drain, that’s just cause it to expand, don’t you need to heat the area around it?

 

[0TreeLemur]

If you are worried about losing a lot of oil, why not clamp on a short length of closed-off tubing to the bottom?  That should alleviate your fear without doing something drastic.

My PP/SEL 2-cents worth.

[Guest]

Valve manufacturer’s specifically say not to leave a hose attached to the valve.

Clarence

[Awful_Charlie]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Valve manufacturer’s specifically say not to leave a hose attached to the valve.

That's interesting - I'd not heard that before.

I've got a BJ1000AH-4L with a tube attached, do you by any chance have a reference or data sheet for it? (my google-fu didn't find one)

[RLCarter]

7 hours ago, spectre6573 said:

Any tips?

This attempt was not made after bringing the engine to running temp for the oil change since living in AZ and it was 110 degrees outside, the oil flows fine. 

I have to ask... What were you using to try and remove it? Also running the engine before draining gets the sediments suspended in the oil,  the fact the oil drains better is just a plus

[Mooneymite]

Years ago, when I was preparing to send my engine to Lycoming for exchange, I wanted to remove the quick  drain.  It had been on the engine for over 2400 hours.

I tried every trick in the book and only ended up destroying the quick drain.  The drain had seized much like spark plugs can.  Happily the engine was going for exchange.

When installing quick drains now, I apply anti-seize to the threads.

[RobertGary1]

I'm surprised people are using pipe wrenches, etc. I've always used a socket. It would probably break the socket before it rounded off the drain.

 

-Robert

[DXB]

Can't one flush the quick drain with some solvent down the filler tube after draining all the oil?  I imagine some gunk is preventing it from seating tightly.  I wasn't aware the quick drain valve was a major source of catastrophic failure. A quick search only turned up this case of the wrong valve having been used on an Arrow: https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001208X07528&ntsbno=FTW97LA113&akey=1

 

[Mooneymite]

27 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I'm surprised people are using pipe wrenches, etc. I've always used a socket. It would probably break the socket before it rounded off the drain.

 

-Robert

Robert, perhaps not all quick drains are created equal.  I started with a six point socket.  No joy.  I tried solvents, vibration, icing the plug and heating the pan, etc., etc.  The quick drain rounded off quickly when I resorted to brute force.

As you know, once the rounding begins, the "neat and clean" process is over.

[RobertGary1]

Unless the drain is left open its hard to imagine it would be a source of quick failure. Even if the seal failed its a slow drip.

-Robert

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, DXB said:

Can't one flush the quick drain with some solvent down the filler tube after draining all the oil?  I imagine some gunk is preventing it from seating tightly.  I wasn't aware the quick drain valve was a major source of catastrophic failure. A quick search only turned up this case of the wrong valve having been used on an Arrow: https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001208X07528&ntsbno=FTW97LA113&akey=1

 

One of our members here suffered bad engine issues a couple of years ago because a piece of plastic [suspected ring from around a cap from an oil bottle] jammed inside the quick drain and prevented it from closing. I don't recall who or when, but it ran on for a while before failing inopportunely; seems the jamming piece of plastic moved around over time and the leak rate increased . . . It was definitely a case of bad juju. So watch for drips, and do something if you see any.

[RobertGary1]

Both the incidents reported above seem to have caused the drain not to close. Wouldn't that be found during the 5 min leak check runup? I can't image the drain would reopen once closed.

 

-Robert

[kortopates]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

One of our members here suffered bad engine issues a couple of years ago because a piece of plastic [suspected ring from around a cap from an oil bottle] jammed inside the quick drain and prevented it from closing. I don't recall who or when, but it ran on for a while before failing inopportunely; seems the jamming piece of plastic moved around over time and the leak rate increased . . . It was definitely a case of bad juju. So watch for drips, and do something if you see any.

 

2 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I can't speak for the OP, but the impetus for getting rid of the quick drain in my case was a MooneySpace PIREP several years ago by a member who basically had his crankcase emptied in flight by one of those little slivers of plastic that make it so you can tell when a can of oil has been opened that somehow made it through his crankcase and wedged in the oil quick drain.  My quick drain had a slow drip anyway and removing and reinstalling oil drain plugs has never been an unreasonable obstacle to me in my life so I removed it.

As for the socket idea, believe me, it occurred to us.     

 

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

Both the incidents reported above seem to have caused the drain not to close. Wouldn't that be found during the 5 min leak check runup? I can't image the drain would reopen once closed.

 

-Robert

The incident referred too above was John's @jlunseth report of oil loss from plastic debris that got stuck in the quick valve - I recall it was described as the plastic ring from an oil cap. I don't believe anything short of removing the valve and back flushing it would clean it out once it was dripping/leaking. Anyway, John can better explain, but I wouldn't consider this a common occurrence yet one that underlines the need to leak test these after every oil change by starting up the engine to check the valve and filter.  What I also recall is that although John got the plane down on the ground before any known engine damage had occurred from the low oil pressure, John made the difficult but correct decision to do a tear down inspection after the event to ensure their wasn't any otherwise unknown damage that could bring down the plane in the future.  

[jlunseth]

39 minutes ago, kortopates said:

 

 

The incident referred too above was John's @jlunseth report of oil loss from plastic debris that got stuck in the quick valve - I recall it was described as the plastic ring from an oil cap. I don't believe anything short of removing the valve and back flushing it would clean it out once it was dripping/leaking. Anyway, John can better explain, but I wouldn't consider this a common occurrence yet one that underlines the need to leak test these after every oil change by starting up the engine to check the valve and filter.  What I also recall is that although John got the plane down on the ground before any known engine damage had occurred from the low oil pressure, John made the difficult but correct decision to do a tear down inspection after the event to ensure their wasn't any otherwise unknown damage that could bring down the plane in the future.  

Yes, I thought it looked like perhaps one of the little fringes that hang from the plastic ring on an oil can, once the cap has been screwed off.  It was fairly mangled though, so it was hard to tell what it was.  And yes, not long after we decided to do an IRAN on the engine, as I recall it started to "make metal."  We though probably it was ring slap, I did quite a fast dive to get down out of the flight levels before being pushed out over the Great Lakes, Lake Huron I think, with the throttle pulled back to save the engine.  The rings are not pressurized when you do something like that, the pressurization seats them against the cylinder wall, instead they can bounce around loose and score the walls.  So we IRAN'd.  That was around 800 hours ago and I couldn't be happier with the engine now.  For one thing, that leak had been going of for sometime at a low level.  I would "use" a quart every 10 hours, and then it got to be a quart every long trip.  Now, with 800 hours on the IRAN, I don't need to add oil between 25 hour changes, it might be down a quart when it gets changed.

The moral of the story is to not let that thing sneak up on your.  I saw one drop on the nose tire just before we left, had them roll it into the shop to check it, and was told it was normal for quick drains to do that.  Right.

Its a few years ago now,  we got through it, the biggest excitement was getting back into the country without passports or eAPIS, but at least no more oil loss.

[0TreeLemur]

@jlunseth Thanks for recounting your story for those of us who are new around here.

[Yetti]

Proper application of a heat gun released the drain from it's bonds.

[spectre6573]

On 9/10/2018 at 5:22 AM, RLCarter said:

I have to ask... What were you using to try and remove it? Also running the engine before draining gets the sediments suspended in the oil,  the fact the oil drains better is just a plus

I was using a long box end wrench. When it started to distort the quick drain I backed off.  I didn’t have a deep enough socket to clear the neck at the time. 

 

Thanks for the tip 

[Marauder]

There is a product made by GM.  It is called "heat valve lubricant". You can get it from your local Chevrolet parts department.  If they have not heard of it, make them look it up in their
catalog.  Spray it on the threads and wait 15 minutes.  Part should come off.  It have used this on exhaust bolts for 40 years with great success.
Everybody should have a can.
Pat

This stuff? https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-4020-Rust-Penetrating-Lubricant/dp/B008I2H55U/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1536769962&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=heat+valve+lubricant


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[RobertGary1]

Is that any better than the dozens of other similar products? Liquid Wrench, PB Blast, etc?

 

-Robert

[jetdriven]