Never Had a Mooney

[FlyingVAce]

Hi all, 

I flew with my dad in his 1969 M20C for years. He passed on and so did the plane to another owner. Now it's years later. I've kids in 3 states and would love a Mooney to go visit. ( dad wrote alot of performance charts for Mooney in Kerrville ). So I'm partial. My budget to purchase is 70K. Annual costs I have at 25,000.00 ( minus big fixes ). I'll fly legs of 2, 4 and 5 hour legs once every other month. ( x2 roundtrip ). Anyway I have minimal "street knowledge" so I'm sailing into uncharted waters. That's a wide open question. I have 1800 TT hours but mostly fixed gear SEL. Currently I'm flying a 172 (rent). I have 150 PIC in complex but not recent so I don't want to jump in and buy my flying coffin. I'm not IRF rated but that's on the to do list when it cools down here. ( East Texas ). Got a hanger lined up. 

So with that said, I thank you all ahead of time for your thoughts.  Please be frank, candid, honest and straight,,,,, I'm ok with that.  Dad had 55000 est. hours when he died. He said know your self and your limits and never violate them. Ever. 

Buck Austin

[wcb]

Where in east TX?  Don Maxwell in Longview is the East Texas Mooney Man.  Might be nice to add location to your avatar.

[gsengle]

I think you’re perfect, and a Mooney is a good airplane for your mission and to get your instrument in. Find a good plane and that annual budget is way more than you’ll need. And there are good Mooneys to be found at that price point. Welcome!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gsxrpilot]

@FlyingVAce it would be worth your time to take a drive over to Longview. Stop at Don Maxwell's shop and ask for Don. He's mostly retired and his son Paul is running the shop. But Don would most certainly be happy to sit and talk Mooneys with you for as long as you want to stick around. And there's no one out there who knows more about them. He might also take you for a ride in one.

 

[FlyingVAce]

I will contact him at my earliest convience. .........Thanks 

Buck

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Buck...

We have a few MSers that have family members that have worked at Mooney in the past...

We have an MSer or two that created a Mooney documentary... about the men and women that built Mooneys.

Plan to get some good transition training... get as much mooney experience collected as quickly as possible...

Best regards,

-a-

[TTaylor]

The Mooney will work well for your mission.  If you are only flying with one or two in the plane a very nice E would work well and be the best bang for the $$.  If you need to carry four adults an F could be found in your budget range.  A nice J is likely slightly higher than your budget.  Your annual budget is hopefully high, but it is nice to have extra just in case.  I don't think you will have any trouble with a transition with your hours and experience.  Go fly one and you will be hooked.

 

 

[FlyingVAce]

Thank you very much,

It's just maybe 2 souls/  rarely 3 max...... rarely. Mostly just me. I remember space in the Mooney being tight. My dad was 6'3" I'm 6' so it was tight. Comments about manual landing gear vs. electric? I generally wasn't considering manual. But as with all things there's pros and cons likely. I have to look up every time to remember the differences in the models and years. Thanks for your thoughts. 

Visiting Don Maxwell tomorrow..........

[Andy95W]

I'd get a loaded and perfect M20C for $55K, with manual gear, since you said "very rarely" for the 3rd passenger.  3 people in a C is very do-able for 2-3 hours.  This, to me, is the best combination of efficiency ($$$), but you can't go wrong with a good E or F, you'll just pay more for a little more speed.  

On a 2 hour flight, the C will be less than 10 minutes slower than the E, and about 5 minutes slower than the F, for a lot less money to acquire and maintain.

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, FlyingVAce said:

Thank you very much,

It's just maybe 2 souls/  rarely 3 max...... rarely. Mostly just me. I remember space in the Mooney being tight. My dad was 6'3" I'm 6' so it was tight. Comments about manual landing gear vs. electric? I generally wasn't considering manual. But as with all things there's pros and cons likely. I have to look up every time to remember the differences in the models and years. Thanks for your thoughts. 

Visiting Don Maxwell tomorrow..........

The Mooney is only tight when comparing to your land vehicle. It's wider than all the Cessna's below the 210 and wider than the Bonanza's. Ask Don when you see him about Paul and Ziggy. We flew out of there on Tuesday in my M20K (all Mooney cockpit's are essentially the same size in the front seats). I'm 5'10" 250 and Ziggy comes in at 6"3 285. We each had plenty of room. No rubbing shoulders or anything.

Compared to piston singles... the Mooney cockpit is very respectable.

[carusoam]

If you like speed and efficiency... a tight cabin is a beautiful thing...   Mooney cabins aren’t that tight when compared to brands C and P.

manual vs. electric... I like both.  Neither is perfect.  One is a lot more convenient than the other.

decide if 200hp or 180hp makes a difference...

decide if running LOP is worth the difference...

If you are buying a forever plane... go all in...  if you are planning a step-up plane save some dollars...

Es are the top of the short body chain...

Fs are the beginning of the mid Body chain...

All are good.

Watch for the economics of moving up the chains.... there is a lot of overlap... A nice C may cost more than a worn out J...

The worn out plane may look like a bargain... the price to get it up to good condition can be daunting....

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[MBDiagMan]

On 9/6/2018 at 3:09 PM, FlyingVAce said:

Hi all, 

I flew with my dad in his 1969 M20C for years. He passed on and so did the plane to another owner. Now it's years later. I've kids in 3 states and would love a Mooney to go visit. ( dad wrote alot of performance charts for Mooney in Kerrville ). So I'm partial. My budget to purchase is 70K. Annual costs I have at 25,000.00 ( minus big fixes ). I'll fly legs of 2, 4 and 5 hour legs once every other month. ( x2 roundtrip ). Anyway I have minimal "street knowledge" so I'm sailing into uncharted waters. That's a wide open question. I have 1800 TT hours but mostly fixed gear SEL. Currently I'm flying a 172 (rent). I have 150 PIC in complex but not recent so I don't want to jump in and buy my flying coffin. I'm not IRF rated but that's on the to do list when it cools down here. ( East Texas ). Got a hanger lined up. 

So with that said, I thank you all ahead of time for your thoughts.  Please be frank, candid, honest and straight,,,,, I'm ok with that.  Dad had 55000 est. hours when he died. He said know your self and your limits and never violate them. Ever. 

Buck Austin

Welcome to the forum Buck!

I hangar an F in Mount Pleasant and have a sale pending on my previous Mooney, a C that is currently at Maxwells. 

There is going to be a Mooney seminar in Longview October 10 through 14.  Details are available on the Maxwellaviation website.  They will spend one of those days at the Mount Pleasant flight museum.  Would be a good time to see multiple Mooney’s on the same ramp and my wife and I will be serving homemade ice cream in our hangar next to the flight museum.

I have a pretty crazy schedule right now, but we can try to get together if you would like to see and maybe ride in my F.

BTW, my late wife who passed away a few years ago was from Wills Point.

Also, don’t let your flight experience make you think that flying a Mooney is beyond your reach.  I went from a Cessna 140 to a Mooney after having the same doubts.  A little transition training and you will find it as easy or easier than a 172 as long as you remember to put down the gear.

[Mooney-Mark]

I bought a pristine 68 C last January and love it! You get a lot of airplane for the price of a C; that's what attracted me to it. However, I would prefer an F for the additional rear seat space when you are carrying passengers. All around, C, E and F's are terrific values for high-performance singles!

[rbridges]

If you're going with a short body, find one you like. IMO don't worry if it's a C or E, manual or electric. Make sure it checks your boxes with care, condition and instrumentation. I was looking for an E when I stumbled across my C model. Couldn't be happier--with the plane anyway.  Lol

[FlyingVAce]

Thank you for all your thoughts to everyone. As the process eases along I took the time and was fortunate to meet Don Maxwell. I found him to be a great great resource. He took time on his day off to come in just to meet with me. We walked thru the hanger and look at various Mooneys and their characteristics. I'd never seen a Mooney up on jacks like a car in mechanic shop. Pretty cool. I will surely reconnect with him and his very helpful wife Jan.

I like the C's. If I found one with the 201 front windshield that might the THE ONE.

Queston: 4 or 6 cylinders ? Frankly I thought they were all 6's. Shows how little I know.

 

[Andy95W]

All of the airplanes you're considering are 4 cylinders.  The 6 cylinder models are the M20K, L, M, R, S, T, TN, U and V.  (also the M20J Missile conversion and the M22, but that's a different story).

Good luck, welcome to our weird little community here.

[gsxrpilot]

Excellent! I'm glad you took the time to go meet up with Don and Jan. 

An M20C is hard to beat for cheap A to B travel by private airplane. I'd recommend two things... 

1. Create a wish list for everything you'd want in the perfect C or E. Sort the list in order from most important to least important. Reorder the list often, as you learn until you get to the order of importance that makes sense for you and your mission. Then find the Mooney that gets you as far down the list as far as possible.
2. Create a spreadsheet listing every M20C for sale along with the items from the above list that it meets or doesn't meet. Include engine hours and asking price. Pretty soon you'll be an expert on current values. You'll also know how realistic your wish list is and what the various options will affect the price.

Places to find Mooneys... here, Controller, Barnstormers, TAP, Don Maxwell, AllAmerican, LASAR...

Best of luck, and happy to talk through options, priorities, prices, specific planes, etc.

 

[Skates97]

8 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Create a spreadsheet listing every M20C for sale along with the items from the above list that it meets or doesn't meet. Include engine hours and asking price. Pretty soon you'll be an expert on current values. You'll also know how realistic your wish list is and what the various options will affect the price.

This is what I did for about six months. Throw in any E's and F's that fit your price range too, although for the same price you will get a better equipped C. 

Oh, and include those a little above your price range too. It will create a bigger picture for you. 

[MBDiagMan]

1 hour ago, FlyingVAce said:

Thank you for all your thoughts to everyone. As the process eases along I took the time and was fortunate to meet Don Maxwell. I found him to be a great great resource. He took time on his day off to come in just to meet with me. We walked thru the hanger and look at various Mooneys and their characteristics. I'd never seen a Mooney up on jacks like a car in mechanic shop. Pretty cool. I will surely reconnect with him and his very helpful wife Jan.

I like the C's. If I found one with the 201 front windshield that might the THE ONE.

Queston: 4 or 6 cylinders ? Frankly I thought they were all 6's. Shows how little I know.

 

Maybe you saw my C N7889P with a 201 windshield there.  Sale pending though.  I really hate giving her up.

let me know your schedule and I might get by Wills Point to give you a ride.  PM me.

[FlyingVAce]

Actually Don pointed out your windshield as we were talking about the differnt looks . 

Buck

[FlyingVAce]

On 9/7/2018 at 2:03 PM, carusoam said:

If you like speed and efficiency... a tight cabin is a beautiful thing...   Mooney cabins aren’t that tight when compared to brands C and P.

manual vs. electric... I like both.  Neither is perfect.  One is a lot more convenient than the other.

decide if 200hp or 180hp makes a difference...

decide if running LOP is worth the difference...

If you are buying a forever plane... go all in...  if you are planning a step-up plane save some dollars...

Es are the top of the short body chain...

Fs are the beginning of the mid Body chain...

All are good.

Watch for the economics of moving up the chains.... there is a lot of overlap... A nice C may cost more than a worn out J...

The worn out plane may look like a bargain... the price to get it up to good condition can be daunting....

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

decide if running LOP is worth the difference... "  What's LOP

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, FlyingVAce said:

decide if running LOP is worth the difference... "  What's LOP

Lean Of Peak - a method of engine management that typically results in a significant reduction in fuel burn for a corresponding minor reduction in speed. This is easier to do with some engines than others. It's difficult/impossible with a carburetor (M20C O360) but quite easy with a fuel injected (M20E and others using the IO360).

[Mooneymite]

The E's engine is undoubtedly a more advanced engine than the C's lowly O-360.  LOP is just one of its advantages, 20 more hp is another.

However the O-360 is a much easier starting engine and it is cheaper to maintain/repair and replace.  A properly adjusted O-360 with fine wire plugs can be run about as miserly as an E's engine.

[gsxrpilot]

This is about as good as I could get in my M20C O360. I know E drivers who fly in the 6 - 7 gph range deep LOP.

[Mooneymite]

I had to hold for the wx on the coast to to come up once upon a time.  I pulled my C back to 17"/1900 RPM and was burning right about 5 gph.  Totalizer showed 8+30 hours to empty.  

8+30.... that's security.