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First Year Cost of Ownership


base698

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I've spent a lot of money on big ticket purchases in my life.  But, this is exactly why purchasing an aircraft was the MOST nerve wrenching purchase I have ever made. Up till my current aircraft I had only leased or been a silent member who just wrote checks. 

During thepre-buy that turned into an annual we only found a few things.  Pito Tube was all rusted, clogged.  And the turbo wastegate was leaking and needed to be overhauled.  The owner and I split it.  All was good until the Turbo was found cracked at first oil change (might have been that way all along and we just missed it on first attempt) 

Over the next 4 years: In no particular order, Mags, Plugs/wires, fuel pump, fuel controller, tach cable, cowl cable, brake lines/pads, tires (2) I think I had a bad right brake, kept flat spotting (or yes I could have had a heavy foot) Batteries, rebuilt compass, re--setting the pot for the ammeter low light on dash. Electrical short through the front cowl that kept popping the landing lights breaker.  New landing lights, two new landing light covers.  found alt air door stuck open and repaired the whole airbox. replaced cable for oxy cyl, replaced gauge for oxy.  I have never kept a spread sheet (I don't want my wife to find it, as far as she knows, it's all gas!!)  me writing it all down is scary enough and I know I haven't even got to the big stuff yet.  The GPS database upgrades were one of my biggest shocks for ownership/sounds silly now.

But, I spent more than I originally intended, hoping I wouldn't get caught up in attempting to "upgrade into" my plane.  That worked out for me, the only thing I'm "planning on" is to upgrade the transponder to a GTX345 and flight stream 210 combo.. I just keep looking for more alternatives and waiting to see if the prices come down before the deadline.

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17 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

My experience has been closer to @Bartman. But I don't think its all luck. It's shopping for a good plane rather than a good price. It's getting to know the owner. "Pre-buy" the owner as much as you would the plane. This includes talking to other pilots and shops who know the owner. Get a pre-buy from a Mooney shop, not just any A&P. Look at planes that are flying now and regularly.

If all of this can be done without falling in love at first sight. In fact, done without any emotion coming into play, you'll likely have a good outcome.

No, I have to admit I got lucky to a certain extent.  I had never flown a Mooney, never sat in a Mooney, and my home shop didn't like to work on a Mooney.  I did some good things like research Mooneyspace for about 6 months before purchase :) and prebuy/annual by Speedbird and I think that they are the people that were to become @AGL Aviation (good decision there too)  I guess the biggest thing I did was buy something that had lots of love and upgrades in the past 2 years.  It was at the top of the price range in 2007, but with all of the recent maintenance and upgrades it made sense.

Oh I forgot that I did have Edison fix the tanks, but that was about year 4.  I figure that one is just to be expected at some point.

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I did some good things like research Mooneyspace for about 6 months before purchase  and prebuy/annual by Speedbird and I think that they are the people that were to become [mention=14357]AGL Aviation[/mention] (good decision there too)  



The FBO was Speedbird then. Lynn was the mechanic then too


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51 minutes ago, Bartman said:

No, I have to admit I got lucky to a certain extent.  I had never flown a Mooney, never sat in a Mooney, and my home shop didn't like to work on a Mooney.  I did some good things like research Mooneyspace for about 6 months before purchase :) and prebuy/annual by Speedbird and I think that they are the people that were to become @AGL Aviation (good decision there too)  I guess the biggest thing I did was buy something that had lots of love and upgrades in the past 2 years.  It was at the top of the price range in 2007, but with all of the recent maintenance and upgrades it made sense.

Oh I forgot that I did have Edison fix the tanks, but that was about year 4.  I figure that one is just to be expected at some point.

Yeah, I think my experience was more like yours, although I've done no real ugrades.  Just getting through my 3rd annual here, and so far the only significant issue was replacing the nosewheel tire and tube.  The only major repair in the past 3 years was having to get that damn new propeller, but other than that, the only repairs required have been in the $200-500 range.

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18 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

"Pre-buy" the owner as much as you would the plane.

This cannot be overemphasized. Most of the 15 airplanes I've bought have been without a pre-buy - of the airplane - based on my "pre-buy" of the seller.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/4/2018 at 8:57 AM, base698 said:

Goals for this thread are two-fold:  Cautionary tale for perspective buyers and wondering out loud how bad luck we've had.

Picked up a 1986 M20J August 14th 2018 for $110K, 12 years and 1200 hours SMO.  A couple of notes, the below is for two pilots getting their IFR ticket and about 140 hours total flight time on the plane.

Maintenance Costs in first year: $45,000

AvGas: $8500

IFR Checkride/Prep (2 pilots) other flying related expenses (memberships etc): $7400

Total: ~$60,000 first year costs (not including the plane itself).

Maintenance:
$3800 Pre-buy/Annual at pickup
$1100 Seat started to fail to lock -- Seat frame was broken.
$6200 Backup attitude indicator (turn coordinator replacement) started to fail, replaced with a G5, which when the pitot-static was tested failed the VSI, requiring an overhaul of the VSI.
$250 Battery died, stranding me (long distance uber required to get to where I was going not included)
$7200 VOR started failing, couldn't track down the problem, sent 530W to Garmin to debug, not issue found, ended up needing to overhaul the HSI and VOR #2.  GDL88 had a failure where N number wasn't present in the FAA reports when filing IFR.  New tire (my fault).
$9000 Stuck oil ring due to overheating issue, likely when we bought it appeared to have spark plugs that were not for the engine.  #4 went offline in flight, EGT/CHTs were low, but quickly lost oil pressure.  Landed without issue, but plane was not flyable, got 4 new cylinders from Lycoming and had the plugs replaced.
$8000 Install of new cylinders, Annual: broken compass bracket requiring remount, brakes were stuck on 1 side and didn't work, 2 new tires.  Gas cap seal hadn't been replaced at last annual, but stated in log book as replaced, I state this only because I feel a lot of stuff was probably missed, or not looked at on a typical annual.
Other miscellaneous expenses not stated: Oil changes and minor issues

TL;DR: Planes are expensive or maybe we just have bad luck or we have been taken for a ride, check the spark plugs on the engine to make sure they match in the prebuy, if they don't assume they are using them to cover up a problem--good compressions won't mean you're in the clear for engine work.

@base698,

Sorry to read about the surprises. I have to believe your future costs will be lower and average everything out. Here's my experience:

Bought a 1985 M20J from a broker located at Kestrel Airpark, Texas. First time buyer - did what research I could in the year prior while I worked on an instrument rating. I had no issues about the broker or the purchasing transaction. I was a rookie, and had to put some trust in the other side, but I never felt uncomfortable. 

After the pre-buy, I put in a $3000 hold-back because of the oil analysis, though the consensus among all stakeholders is the numbers were high because the plane hadn't been flown. Anyway, they accepted the holdback, the theory turned out to be correct, and I released the money after 20 hours or so and another oil change.

Costs

DEC 17: $1000 Pre-buy inspection

DEC 17: $2000 Buyer-directed maintenance after pre-buy (gear actuator "no-back" spring, gear door strut bearing, spark plugs, oil, glare shield light, misc.)

JAN 18: $600 Two consecutive oil changes related to the holdback provision and need for analysis

APR 18: $240 for a software update on my GNS-43W GPS and GTX-330ES to fix an ADS-B issue flagged in a registered letter (yay!) from the San Antonio FAA FSDO

JUL 18: $1250 Annual inspection 

JUL 18: $375 Shim worn linkage in nose wheel steering 

Now, the above must be qualified with the information that the owner before me spent about $20,000 for a Mooney Service Center annual and a lot of (deferred?) maintenance. Going forward, I worry about declining compression values on my IO-390 engine - no aftermarket cylinders. Nearly a year in - no horrible surprises, but I figure everyone gets their turn in the penalty box sometime. So we'll see.

Thanks for starting the thread. 

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1 hour ago, Brent said:

JAN 18: $600 Two consecutive oil changes related to the holdback provision and need for analysis

$300 for an oil change??  Good grief! :blink:

Is that normal?  I've never had an oil change done by the shop except for at annual time, so I don't know.  If that's normal, I'll keep on doing the oil changes myself for sure...

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11 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

$300 for an oil change??  Good grief! :blink:

Is that normal?  I've never had an oil change done by the shop except for at annual time, so I don't know.  If that's normal, I'll keep on doing the oil changes myself for sure...

Sounds a little high to me but not outrageous.  A case of oil can run over $100 retail with shipping, and an oil filter is $30ish.  So you're in for almost a buck and a half anyway if you buy fancy oil.  Shop time including cowl removal and cutting open an oil filter could easily be more than an hour.  So $300 seems about a half-hamburger high but nbd.

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20 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

$300 for an oil change??  Good grief! :blink:

Is that normal?  I've never had an oil change done by the shop except for at annual time, so I don't know.  If that's normal, I'll keep on doing the oil changes myself for sure...

Yeah, my first L.A. oil change was a surprise at $260. But to be fair, it included some preventive inspection work and picking up and returning the plane to my hangar. So basically a house call. 

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Just now, Brent said:

Yeah, my first L.A. oil change was a surprise at $260. But to be fair, it included some preventive inspection work and picking up and returning the plane to my hangar. So basically a house call. 

Oh! It included the analysis, too. Important variable here that I forgot.

 

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9 minutes ago, toto said:

Sounds a little high to me but not outrageous.  A case of oil can run over $100 retail with shipping, and an oil filter is $30ish.  So you're in for almost a buck and a half anyway if you buy fancy oil.  Shop time including cowl removal and cutting open an oil filter could easily be more than an hour.  So $300 seems about a half-hamburger high but nbd.

But you only use 8 qts in an IO-360, so it's 2/3 of a case which is about $90, so oil cost is something like $60. And I only use 7 qts

I usually take my empty oil filters down to the shop and have them cut it open, which literally takes 3 minutes.  They don't charge me because they're nice and they appreciate that I drain the filter completely overnight.

I just buy my analysis kits ($13 each) and oil filters ($21) at Aircraft Spruce, I buy a few at a time to save shipping.

So anything above $100 is the cost of labor -- decowling, oil change, safety wiring, recowling and test running

I'd call it a full hamburger high <_<

 

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20 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

But you only use 8 qts in an IO-360, so it's 2/3 of a case which is about $90, so oil cost is something like $60. And I only use 7 qts

 

Yep, that's true. I wondered why the last four quarts kept spilling out all over the ramp :P

 

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1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

But you only use 8 qts in an IO-360, so it's 2/3 of a case which is about $90, so oil cost is something like $60. And I only use 7 qts

I usually take my empty oil filters down to the shop and have them cut it open, which literally takes 3 minutes.  They don't charge me because they're nice and they appreciate that I drain the filter completely overnight.

I just buy my analysis kits ($13 each) and oil filters ($21) at Aircraft Spruce, I buy a few at a time to save shipping.

So anything above $100 is the cost of labor -- decowling, oil change, safety wiring, recowling and test running

I'd call it a full hamburger high <_<

 

I fly 83 nm to Spruce and buy 2 cases, 2 filters and whatever odds & ends I need. My fuel cost is about equal to the shipping charge.  :D

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SWTA charges me $158 for an oil change. That's oil, filter, and 1 hour labor. And since all I have to do is call, or just send JD a text, they go to my hangar, pull it up to the shop, do the job, and put it back in my hangar... I figure I can't afford to do it myself for that price. :D  And since I travel so much for work, it's nice to get it done while I'm out of town. That way it's ready to fly when I am.

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I'm on my second airplane and have only owned my 231 for a year, but my last airplane needed a new engine within a year.  3 cracked cylinders led to the discovery of a pitted camshaft (Lyc 0-360) which pretty much calls for a Major.  After the first year fixes, that airplane was great- just upgrade and general maintenance for almost 8 years, not other major expenses.  

My 231 decided to quit on the runway due to fuel system age which seems to have recently sparked some interest- we replaced the oil/fuel hoses at acquisition as they were over time, but the recommendation was never made on the rest of the fuel system.  That plus a blown King HSI led to a G5 upgrade (almost cheaper than an OH believe it or not). 

So, for me, expensive first year ownership is the norm, and expected.  

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  • 1 month later...

Wow, I did everything wrong.  I bought the plane sight unseen after looking at adds.  I was a student pilot at the time and figured I wouldn’t know what I was looking at anyway.  I did hire a buyers agent to help.  And did have a pre buy.

I bought a plane that had 50 hrs SMOH, 12 years prior.  I bought it because the wife liked the color of the plane and the cosmetics were good.  This after looking for a couple of weeks.  I still had to take my check ride in a 172 and then get 25 hours of dual, along with the high performance and complex endorsements.

I knew there were some upgrades that I wanted, shoulder harnesses and a engine monitor.  The first year surprises were only a door hinge repair and strut work, about a $1000.  Ive owned the plane now for 6 years and about 600hrs and pretty much only what I would call routine maintenance over the years.  Batteries, generator, starter, tires, and things you would expect to replace from time to time.  

My average maintenance cost have come out to around $4500 per year over the last 6 years.  This includes the cost of the annual inspection.  I also replaced the transponder.  This does not include upgrades, shoulder harnesses, engine monitor,  and fuel flow .

ive had my plane inspected by 4 different shops.  I bought the plane in Wisconsin and had its first annual there, then I lived in Missouri, now Florida.  So there have been several sets of eyes looking it over.  I’m currently waiting for my mags to return for their 500hr inspection.  But it’s been a very reliable plane so far.

its not a Mooney, but that really shouldn’t make a difference.  It’s just been maintained over the years.  And I got lucky I guess on the engine.  I had expected to probably need a rebuild due to lack of use.  But so far it’s going strong.

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