Max altitude for a non-turbo M20F

[FastTex]

I remember reading in one of my documents that my Mooney is certified up to 17000' (I cannot find where...).

What's the max altitude you have been with a non-turbo (obviously with oxygen...) and in what meteorological conditions?

 

[N201MKTurbo]

17500 with no oxygen in a mountain wave over the Rockies. 

Made a couple of IFR legs at 16000 with oxygen.

This was in a 67 M20F. It performs quite well at those altitudes, you should try it more often.

Posted from beautiful French Polynesia. Flew the Mooney the first leg.

 

[Ron McBride]

Density altitude 17500, actual indicated altitude 14500, with oxygen.

ron 

[Hank]

I've had my C to 15,000 msl on a hot August afternoon. Later calculated DA to have been 18,800. Well above standard temps, although the charts in my Owners Manual stop at 12,500 msl.

[Shadrach]

 I've had mine to DAs in excess of 18K, could have gone higher.   Expect less than 400FPM above 14K but it's still quite usable. In all honesty it does far better than it has right to on 200HP and does quite bit better than other certified manufacturers in the same class. 

[carusoam]

Great power to weight ratio question...

I took my M20C to 14.5k’ limitation was time at altitude without O2....

With the NA engine, the power will be dropping with altitude...

Start with lots of power, lighten the load as much as possible, and pick a nice cold day.....

Bring O2 along...

It is kind of disappointing when you find out your plane climbs easily above what you expected it to do... 

Go Mooney!

-a-

[Hector]

Had my C to 16500. Took a while but she got there and she could have gone higher but I had enough.


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[DXB]

I've never been above 12500 - no O2 on board.  Frankly my bird climbs like a dog anyway in the summer above 8000.  I don't like climbing at under 100mph IAS, and at 100mph I had trouble maintaining 500fpm a few weeks ago up to only 10,000.   I also hated watching the high cylinder temps on the C when climbing to there.  You can get a bit more power by leaning but the temps go up, or you can keep it rich and pitch steeper and go slower, making the temps go up.  It seems like a no win to me. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the cooling design on the carb'd birds sucks. 

 

[FastTex]

10 hours ago, N803RM said:

Density altitude 17500, actual indicated altitude 14500, with oxygen.

ron 

Speaking of oxygen (...maybe I should open a new thread...) what's the best (and most economical) solution? 

 

[ArtVandelay]

I've had my C to 15,000 msl on a hot August afternoon. Later calculated DA to have been 18,800. Well above standard temps, although the charts in my Owners Manual stop at 12,500 msl.

Ditto, I wanted to do it under the worst conditions so I know what my planes limits are. The density altitude of 19,500, but my RPM was 2600 and IAS 90K, my charts show a service ceiling of 23,000, I doubt I could make that as I was climbing less than 200’/min. I would have to increase RPMs and decrease IAS, below is the chart for the J:

[Yetti]

3 hours ago, FastTex said:

Speaking of oxygen (...maybe I should open a new thread...) what's the best (and most economical) solution? 

 

 

[TTaylor]

17,800 crossing the Sierra.  Was forced to go south from my usual route so decided I wanted to be high.  Great view of the park and Yosemite Falls.  I use a portable bottle and two person EDS in the plane.

[Immelman]

IT is all a function of aircraft weight and outside temperature.

I took my E to 210,..... and I think in the conditions at the time would allow for 230 or 250 in it, but did not feel comfortable going higher without a backup o2 source. But that was not a typical day, or typical load.

On a summer day with a few people aboard (heavy) it will struggle above 16,000

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Immelman

[Marauder]

IT is all a function of aircraft weight and outside temperature.
I took my E to 210,..... and I think in the conditions at the time would allow for 230 or 250 in it, but did not feel comfortable going higher without a backup o2 source. But that was not a typical day, or typical load.
On a summer day with a few people aboard (heavy) it will struggle above 16,000
 

How mushy are the controls up there and what kind of indicated airspeed were you seeing?


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[Immelman]

12 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

How mushy are the controls up there and what kind of indicated airspeed were you seeing?


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I'd have to find my notes but the airplane trued our around 130 knots (maybe a bit more). Would have to work backwards to find the IAS but probably 100mph +/-. The controls would not be any different than 100mph at low altitude.

The lack of excess power though could lead a pilot to think things feel mushy, but in a different sense. In that regard, I think any airplane has a different feel when you are at the upper edge of its envelope. If you 'lose your spot' due to turbulence, wave, etc, or slow down and get behind the power curve, the recovery will be long and cost a bunch of altitude....same thing in a big transport jet.

[Shiny moose]

I personally am a complete idiot at 25K in the altitude chamber, unable to add simple numbers. I would hate to be even near that cabin altitude without O2 trying to make simple decisions. Climb that mooney but bring some O2 with ya

My .02

[carusoam]

At 25k’...

Bring two sources of O2, expect problems with the first system... 

It can take a lot of time to get back down....

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

A friend of mine took his normally aspirated 180 HP RV6 to just over 26000’ and had a maximum sustained altitude just under 26000’

Clarence

[ArtVandelay]

A friend of mine took his normally aspirated 180 HP RV6 to just over 26000’ and had a maximum sustained altitude just under 26000’
Clarence

I assume you have to ask ATC for a block altitude, since at least here in the states you have to be on a IFR flight plan and you don’t know what your final altitude will be.

[gsxrpilot]

I had my M20C to 16,500 once... barely. So I sold it and now fly the 252 above 20K ft. every chance I get.

[aviatoreb]

3 hours ago, M20Doc said:

A friend of mine took his normally aspirated 180 HP RV6 to just over 26000’ and had a maximum sustained altitude just under 26000’

Clarence

How did he do that? I wouldn’t have guessed it possible.

[ArtVandelay]

How did he do that? I wouldn’t have guessed it possible.

It’s Winter in Canada, DA at FL260 was probably somewhere in the low teens.

[David Lloyd]

12 hours ago, Shiny moose said:

I personally am a complete idiot at 25K in the altitude chamber, unable to add simple numbers. I would hate to be even near that cabin altitude without O2 trying to make simple decisions. Climb that mooney but bring some O2 with ya

My .02

With unsuspecting passengers after an hour or so at 8 or 9000' I would hand them a notepad and ask them to add the numbers on it.  Simple stuff like 23+11+42.  Never got a correct answer. 

[jaylw314]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 5:38 AM, teejayevans said:

Ditto, I wanted to do it under the worst conditions so I know what my planes limits are. The density altitude of 19,500, but my RPM was 2600 and IAS 90K, my charts show a service ceiling of 23,000, I doubt I could make that as I was climbing less than 200’/min. I would have to increase RPMs and decrease IAS, below is the chart for the J:

 

There's nothing wrong with running RPM at 2700 for climbing and cruising.  You lose a little bit of engine efficiency, but the extra power helps and runs a little cooler too.  Above 10k, the air is about 1/3 the density, so the cabin noise from the prop is also significantly reduced.

7 minutes ago, David Lloyd said:

With unsuspecting passengers after an hour or so at 8 or 9000' I would hand them a notepad and ask them to add the numbers on it.  Simple stuff like 23+11+42.  Never got a correct answer. 

Kind of makes you wonder about all those yayhoo's who insist on bringing their work and laptops with them on commercial flights, since the cabins are pressurized to about 9000', IIRC.  I wonder how much productivity this country is losing by people having to redo their work once they're back on the ground 

[ArtVandelay]

With unsuspecting passengers after an hour or so at 8 or 9000' I would hand them a notepad and ask them to add the numbers on it.  Simple stuff like 23+11+42.  Never got a correct answer. 

Maybe you should have them do it on the ground first, just in case they’re bad at math.