Savvy Analysis ALERT

[Cruiser]

Has anyone else got one of these? 

I am guessing it is computer generated but still, a great heads up. Based on my JPI 830 flight files Savvy says my oil pressure is too high compared to the 2428 other flights by a cohort of 57 other M20 (S/R) aircraft.

I run 65 psi in cruise. I went back and checked it has been this way since I got the plane. The POH says 30 - 100 psi on oil pressure but Continental IO-550-G specs say 30 - 60 psi

Any thoughts?

[Andy95W]

I wouldn't change a thing, so long as everything else is normal.  I'd much rather have 5 psi high than 5 psi low.

[ilovecornfields]

65 seems high. My Ovation always runs 48-51 in cruise. It’s almost disturbing how narrow the range is. Like any statistic, if you’re higher than 95% of the cohort it could be that something is wrong or just that you’re in that top 5% (or 2.5%) of “normal.” If it exceeds Continental’s recommendations it might be worth talking to a mechanic about it. 

[Bryan]

My TSIO-360-SB is a rock solid 48-51 in cruise.  What bothers me is when I land and idle back on the roll-out and into the taxiway, my OP is 27-28 with low RPMs.  I get that the oil is cooling down and the RPMs are very low to pump that oil but I always tend to give it a 100 or so more RPMs to get it a little closer to 30psi and to keep my JPI from "alarming" me.  I do, however, bump the rpms up but keeping them at or below 1000 not to heat back up the turbo.

[Txbyker]

12 hours ago, Cruiser said:

Has anyone else got one of these? 

I am guessing it is computer generated but still, a great heads up. Based on my JPI 830 flight files Savvy says my oil pressure is too high compared to the 2428 other flights by a cohort of 57 other M20 (S/R) aircraft.

I run 65 psi in cruise. I went back and checked it has been this way since I got the plane. The POH says 30 - 100 psi on oil pressure but Continental IO-550-G specs say 30 - 60 psi

Any thoughts?

Mine is the same, right in the middle of the green.  I called the factory and they checked with a test pilot and said “ yep you’re good that’s normal”. 

Russ

[exM20K]

TSIO550G:  60-64 PSI in cruise, but that is with low (mid 160's) oil temps: in climb, 54 PSI and 175-185*

[Godfather]

1 hour ago, exM20K said:

TSIO550G:  60-64 PSI in cruise, but that is with low (mid 160's) oil temps: in climb, 54 PSI and 175-185*

Agree with the above numbers. 62 psi at 2550 with slightly cooler oil temps. 

[StevenL757]

2 hours ago, exM20K said:

TSIO550G:  60-64 PSI in cruise, but that is with low (mid 160's) oil temps: in climb, 54 PSI and 175-185*

For my IO550N, I regularly see 52-54 consistently year-round in cruise.  

[carusoam]

Heads up for our inside guy... who may have some insight...

@kortopates

 

Gents,  something to keep in mind... OilP and OilT can be very inter-related through viscosity... you may want to update your posts with a corresponding OilT if you have it available...  

Best regards,

-a-

[exM20K]

4 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

For my IO550N, I regularly see 52-54 consistently year-round in cruise.  

At what oil temp?

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Bryan said:

My TSIO-360-SB is a rock solid 48-51 in cruise.  What bothers me is when I land and idle back on the roll-out and into the taxiway, my OP is 27-28 with low RPMs.  I get that the oil is cooling down and the RPMs are very low to pump that oil but I always tend to give it a 100 or so more RPMs to get it a little closer to 30psi and to keep my JPI from "alarming" me.  I do, however, bump the rpms up but keeping them at or below 1000 not to heat back up the turbo.

Nothing to worry about with lower idle oil pressure unless it goes below the low limit red line.  Most Continental engines take their oil pressure reading after the main bearings while most Lycoming engine take their oil pressure reading before.

Clarence

[StevenL757]

8 hours ago, exM20K said:

At what oil temp?

Upper 160s to low 170s typically.  2550rpm, 40-50 LOP.

[Jeff_S]

Hey Cruiser. I have the Savvy Pro package and they are constantly giving me the same alert about oil pressure. Mine is generally 68-70 in cruise with temps between 170-180.  While this is high compared to the CMI guidance, it is in the middle of the green band on the G1000 gauge, and I have consulted numerous sources to determine if there’s really a problem. Everyone except Savvy says to leave it alone. My AP said it’s possible to adjust it down but requires some tweaking that really has no benefit. And Blackstone has nothing but good things to say with oil analyses ever 25-ish ours.

One sure way to lower it is to just run with less oil. After a change I generally show 6 quarts and that’s when I see the pressures as above. But I generally let it run down to about 4.5 quarts before adding any more, and down at that level I will see in the mid 60s PSI in cruise.

For those who care, I run Phillips 20W-50 year round.

[Txbyker]

17 hours ago, Txbyker said:

Mine is the same, right in the middle of the green.  I called the factory and they checked with a test pilot and said “ yep you’re good that’s normal”. 

Russ

I forgot to add that my POH shows 30-60 as normal.  The gauge shows probably something like 30-100 for green.  The Acclaim POH says 30-100.  For the GX2 I think the POH is in conflict with the indicator but the factory said the POH is correct and what running mid 60's is ok.

[StevenL757]

27 minutes ago, Txbyker said:

  17 hours ago, Txbyker said:

Mine is the same, right in the middle of the green.  I called the factory and they checked with a test pilot and said “ yep you’re good that’s normal”. 

Russ

26 minutes ago, Txbyker said:

I forgot to add that my POH shows 30-60 as normal.  The gauge shows probably something like 30-100 for green.  The Acclaim POH says 30-100.  For the GX2 I think the POH is in conflict with the indicator but the factory said the POH is correct and what running mid 60's is ok.

Yeah, correct on both accounts.  Generally speaking, your POH should trump any cockpit indications...however, both should be in alignment.

 

 

[kellym]

1 hour ago, StevenL757 said:

Yeah, correct on both accounts.  Generally speaking, your POH should trump any cockpit indications...however, both should be in alignment.

 

 

Engine gauge limitations are generally in the FAA approved airworthiness limitations.  As long as you are inside those numbers, you are fine. To operate with numbers not inside those requirements you need STC/337 field approval. G1000 or whatever instrumentation markings should match POH, or there is a problem.

[kortopates]

Tom, 65 PSI is much higher than the typical average we see for that engine of 45-55 psi at normal cruise temperatures, higher oil temps over 200F are only going to reduce the pressure; especially for single weight oils  Since this is coming from a non-primary EDM-830 it may not be measuring near the intended source and thus the real oil pressure measured  may actually be higher. Still the only real concerns IMO are how high your initial cold oil pressure is - hopefully its not exceeding upper limit of 100 psi for cold oil and that your higher than average oil pressure isn't increasing oil consumption (i wouldn't expect 65 psi to do so). Another concern is cold oil at startup producing high oil pressure that for example could put the oil filter into bypass mode at startup prematurely. But before taking action, I'd check where the sensor is installed relative to how far downstream from the OEM source. But the oil pressure regulator is very easy to adjust if you and your mechanic decide to do so.  For example, Lycomings minimum cruise oil pressure is at 60 psi compared to Continentals at 30 psi probably largely because of the difference in where the oil pressure sensor is installed with Lycs picking it up much closer to the oil pump.

Edited August 18, 2018 by kortopates

[Robert C.]

2006 O3: Aeroshell 100, 60-61 psi in cruise @160F; I usually have 6 qts of oil by the 3rd or 4th flight after an oil change and it stays there for a while.

Robert

 

[jlunseth]

On 8/12/2018 at 2:26 PM, Bryan said:

My TSIO-360-SB is a rock solid 48-51 in cruise.  What bothers me is when I land and idle back on the roll-out and into the taxiway, my OP is 27-28 with low RPMs.  I get that the oil is cooling down and the RPMs are very low to pump that oil but I always tend to give it a 100 or so more RPMs to get it a little closer to 30psi and to keep my JPI from "alarming" me.  I do, however, bump the rpms up but keeping them at or below 1000 not to heat back up the turbo.

Why 30, is that in your POH?

When JPI sets up a unit, there are lots of values that are displayed on their screen for which there is no minimum or maximum in the POH for the aircraft. They just stick in a number.  That 30 is likely one of the numbers they just stuck in, and probably it is a minimum value that is intended to alert you to a failure in oil pressure when in cruise.  I have a TSIO-360-LB and the POH says the minimum is 10 psi (IDLE ONLY). It specifies a Normal Operating Range of 30-80 psi, but that is a cruise range, not an idle range. 

To give you an example, there is no fuel pressure min. or max. for my M20K (except at full power), but there is an FP readout on my 930, and JPI set a min and a max when they shipped the unit.  I don't now exactly what the min. is, but probably 10 or 12 psi.  That is a cruise psi not an idle psi.  I like that they did that, I would want to know if, at cruise, my FP fell below that, because it would mean I have a problem.  But idling down the taxiway my FP is in the 2.5-3.5 range.  So I constantly get a red alert on my FP every time I tax iand that has been the case for as long as I have had the aircraft, which is closing in on ten years now.  I have had instructors and DPE's ask why the fuel flow is low several times.  I explain to them there is no lower or upper limit for my aircraft, JPI just picked one and it is for cruise not for idle.  Since we are idling down the taxiway using practically no fuel at all, it is not surprising we are seeing 2.5 psi or something on that order. 

If there is a POH redline, JPI is required to use that when they set the unit up.  But remember, they make units that work in lots of aircraft, some may have POH min. limits for a specific value, like min. fuel flow, and some not.  Where there is no redline min. or redline max. in the POH, they set something anyway, it does not mean in this instance that operating below that number is a hazard to your aircraft, JPI is not an engine maker and they are just making a best guess in the absence of a POH number.  A low alert on one of those values can just mean you are in a regime of engine operation (idle) for which the min. that JPI put in is not applicable.

Same for your 30, I doubt it is a redline minimum for your aircraft stated in the POH, and it is a cruise min., not an idle min.

 

PS my OP is in the 40s or low 50's at startup, but once at cruise and with a warm engine, it is a rock sold 38 psi.  

Edited August 17, 2018 by jlunseth

[glenn reynolds]

My ovation has 350 hours on a factory new engine it always reads 65 psi.  and same as above,  blackstone says life is good.  I run nine to ten quarts of oil and it has no effect on the oil pressure.  

[Andy95W]

I'm hoping @Cruiser will come back to us and tell us what he's going to do about his engine.

[Txbyker]

Like I said, indicator in the middle. POH however says 30-60. No way the top of green is 60.

Russ




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[carusoam]

Way to go, Russ!

The Pic tells the story!

Best regards,

-a-

[Jeff_S]

Russ’s pic looks exactly like my engine page.