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Coming back in to the fold


JRam

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Mind you this is at 11.5k, but a good Moo-ficiency example.  Nonstop from Oshkosh to the east coast is very doable on standard 64 gallon tanks even minus a little tailwind).  Nonstop is not possible with a 4 year old with a 4 year old bladder in the right seat. ;-)

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On 7/24/2018 at 1:27 PM, JRam said:

A few years ago I made the uncomfortable decision to purchase a 66 Mooney M20E to get back in to aviation...because what says good decision like an impulse buy of something you will sit on 7000 feet above the ground?! I knew nothing about Mooney's but the mechanic at the FBO near my place worked on it and said it was a powerhouse. It was the best decision of my life, maybe not the best way to make it, but I flew everywhere. I got my IFR, did some mountain flying and went from coast to coast. I loved it. I didn't know much better as a 6'2" 220 lb man sitting in that little M20E, but I couldn't get enough for 500 hours over about 6 years. Then one day I was going overseas and the wife didn't want to babysit for a year so I decided to sell it.

And now, after being back 2 years, I want back in! I'm looking all over for Mooney's and I'm getting green with envy. As I progress through these forums and learn more and more, I eventually determine I need a 2018 Acclaim Ultra. I don't know if you guys realize this, but they don't sell those for the same price as my 66 M20E!! So I have to figure out an alternate view point. So I'm going to continue to peruse the forums here, but I think I'm leaning somewhere between an M20F and an M20J and could use any advice (don't worry, I'll try to make it easy by looking most of this up in your previous posts). 

My M20E was a cross country machine for me and I'm looking for the same, only with more amenities. I was flying minimums in IFR with a wing leveler that didn't level as much as turn to the left slower, so I want a strong auto-pilot and would love to have that coupled to the GPS. I want to wake up on a Friday and tell the wife we are heading 1200 miles away for a long weekend (or finally get to Oshkosh!) and not think twice about it so speed and distance are critical, it's usually just her and I. And I love having the new avionics, my first buy in the echo was a GNS430W which back then was sweet. 

So, hit me with some advice, berate me for giving up my workhorse, pat me on the head for my lack of knowledge... I'll take it all! I'm excited to get back in and be more informed this time! (I've been talking with Jimmy Garrison down in my old home town of San Antonio and he's great, but I may be annoying him by now with my lack of direction)

Justin Ramsey

I was in the same situation as you a few months ago.  I used to own an M20E (loved that airplane), put a few hundred hours on it, and then fell out of love with aviation after it needed a major overhaul and the A&P ran off with my money, and, as it turned out, had something of a drugs problem.  Anyway, fast-forward 12 years and I got the flying bug again and was in the market for another Mooney, but this time I was looking for my "forever" airplane.  For me it was defining the mission and setting a budget.  $100k got me a J with mid-time engine, but a really good instrument platform, which was my main priority.  Aspen, KFC-200 with alt hold / GPSS, GNS430, ADSB-Out and recently re-sealed tanks.  This time around I didn't want to spend money on the panel, and as others have pointed out it's always cheaper if the previous owner had made the investment in the panel.  For the same price I could have got into a K, but I'm on a budget these days and maintaining a 6 cylinder continental and a turbocharger scared me off.  Of course everything in aviation is a compromise.  I love my M20J; love it more and more every time I fly it, but if I had the budget I would have been shopping for an Ovation or a Bravo.

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On 7/24/2018 at 4:07 PM, JRam said:

I love the insight, this is where I get tripped up. I start low at like $50K and end up around $160K = $180K and I'm trying to keep it near $100K or lower. But my pricetag keep growing for sure, because I'd love 30 knots, extra room and a decent useful load! Lol

J's are as fast as K's up to about 10K or 12K feet. But they'll do it on less fuel.

F's have the best average useful load of the fleet (Eagles are right there as well but in a different tax bracket). And they're cheaper to acquire than a J... but a smidge slower as well. 

The sweet spot between speed/efficiency/useful load would have to be an M20K 252 Encore. I typically get between 16 and 18 MPG in my 252 (gotta be sucking on the O2 to get this) and the Encore conversion will give me over 1100 lbs useful load. 

But it's hard to beat @201er M20J for range. I'm pretty sure he did a full tour of the Caribbean and didn't buy fuel until he was back in Florida.

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15 hours ago, BaldEagle said:

I was in the same situation as you a few months ago.  I used to own an M20E (loved that airplane), put a few hundred hours on it, and then fell out of love with aviation after it needed a major overhaul and the A&P ran off with my money, and, as it turned out, had something of a drugs problem.  Anyway, fast-forward 12 years and I got the flying bug again and was in the market for another Mooney, but this time I was looking for my "forever" airplane.  For me it was defining the mission and setting a budget.  $100k got me a J with mid-time engine, but a really good instrument platform, which was my main priority.  Aspen, KFC-200 with alt hold / GPSS, GNS430, ADSB-Out and recently re-sealed tanks.  This time around I didn't want to spend money on the panel, and as others have pointed out it's always cheaper if the previous owner had made the investment in the panel.  For the same price I could have got into a K, but I'm on a budget these days and maintaining a 6 cylinder continental and a turbocharger scared me off.  Of course everything in aviation is a compromise.  I love my M20J; love it more and more every time I fly it, but if I had the budget I would have been shopping for an Ovation or a Bravo.

This is exactly where I am honestly. I love the speed of the K and I am not too worried (famous last words) about the maintenance to get that extra speed. And now with @gsxrpilot comments, the Encore sounds like a very good looking option. 

However, it may be time to just accept the best invite I have to the dance now (J or K 231), fly like crazy for a few years and then plan to marry the former Miss USA (Bravo or Ovation) in 5-10 years after she had a chance to grow older and realize she had to settle on me! (It'd be fantastic if no one let my wife know about this analogy).

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38 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

If you’re still looking for something quick with two seats, there is a lancair 320 on beechtalk that oooks pretty fast on minimal fuel use. 

Someone else had mentioned that one to me. The speed and efficiency is tempting, but not enough weight to actually be a vacation-able craft. I'm 220 and so I either leave my wife behind or the luggage if I was carrying a full tank.

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Based purely on the budget the J makes sense. The best airframe example is probably the 84 on as it came with fold down seats and removable one piece belly panel. Next up would be the latter J with the 2900 lb weight increase. Over the years I’ve owned several E’s, J’s & a K but today fly a 310hp Eagle. This may not fit your budget but be aware that these Continental’s are a much smoother engine than are the 4cyl. Lycomings. I found this to be a huge benefit when flying long distances. I simply felt better when I arrived. Fuel burn is 13 gph on the standard 100 gal tanks or less LOP. I  consistently fly from NJ to Fl. or elsewhere non stop 5-6 hrs with 2-3 hrs reserve which means even at the slower speeds LOP I can beat other AC like my J as they need a fuel stop. I don’t find the maintenance any more expensive than my J’s. While a K is another great option it is slower below 10K takes longer to take off and longer to land than a J and the true hourly cost needs to include O2 in order to get the speed advantage. This may be surprisingly expensive if you are somewhere that you need to have it filled. If built in O2 there is a weight penalty and a recurrent inspection which can be very costlyshould the bottle needs replacement. In the end as others have said buy the best example that you can afford and include a few thousand for the unexpected first year issues. Finally pay now or pay latter for deferred maintenance, Avionics and engine time. Your call. 

 

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4 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

If you’re still looking for something quick with two seats, there is a lancair 320 on beechtalk that oooks pretty fast on minimal fuel use. 

Yes, I owned it before the current owner and can attest that it is a great airplane.

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Welcome back  to the club, JRam.

You have the hard part out of the way...  Go Mooney!

Now you get to the next level...

1) NA 

2) TC

3) TN

 

Got any insight on these...

1) Is this going to be a forever plane? 

2) just another step in the journey?

 

Then There is the next step... picking the body that works for you, today and out into the future...

1) Short (you got that feel already)

2) mid

3) Long....

 

While shopping... It is really cool to see somebody’s Forever plane... they can be highly updated already, and somewhat under used...

Staying in the Mooney family comes with a lot of comfort... This can be really important to a person that doesn’t fly for a living or have thousands of hours in a variety of other planes.

 

I’m a big fan of the NA IO550... But the economics may be more of a challenge a decade after retirement.....?

Enjoy the hunt!

Best regards,

-a-

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9 hours ago, carusoam said:

Welcome back  to the club, JRam.

You have the hard part out of the way...  Go Mooney!

Now you get to the next level...

1) NA 

2) TC

3) TN

 

Got any insight on these...

1) Is this going to be a forever plane? 

2) just another step in the journey?

 

Then There is the next step... picking the body that works for you, today and out into the future...

1) Short (you got that feel already)

2) mid

3) Long....

 

While shopping... It is really cool to see somebody’s Forever plane... they can be highly updated already, and somewhat under used...

Staying in the Mooney family comes with a lot of comfort... This can be really important to a person that doesn’t fly for a living or have thousands of hours in a variety of other planes.

 

I’m a big fan of the NA IO550... But the economics may be more of a challenge a decade after retirement.....?

Enjoy the hunt!

Best regards,

-a-

I don't think this is my forever plane, but a good 5-10 year plane for me. I'd like to eventually have enough disposable income to afford a pressurized, fast and slightly larger aircraft.

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one MSer went from an F(?) to an R, to a turbine P46T...  Ask @Jerry 5TJ for details...

The Long Body makes a great decade type of plane... I’m in year 8 or 9 of the O....

Mooneys have never gone out of style.

A long body might be a bit harsh on the budget as a retirement plane... but a whole lot easier on the budget  than a P46T...

Best regards,

-a-

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I love my eagle. With the baggage space and the seats folded down i was blown away by how much I was able to fit in the boot. cruise at 180 knots at 14.5 gals per hour and in style. I did a 6 hour flight on Wednesday from South California (KSNA) to North Washington (KBLI) with a stop in Eugene, Oregon. I had enough fuel to go direct but I wanted to check out university of Oregon. There arent many planes that can travel as well as a Mooney can. If I went direct I could have done it in 5 hours and 20 minutes.

Edited by Niko182
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16 hours ago, carusoam said:

....A long body might be a bit harsh on the budget as a retirement plane... but a whole lot easier on the budget  than a P46T...

Just think of it as a long term care savings plan....when the time comes, sell the turboprop and pay for a nursing home slot....

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I just flew from Central TX to Appleton, WI with one fuel stop (over 1100 nm) and Appleton to Eastern MA non-stop (800 nm) in my highly modified F.  I filled the plane (90 gallons) in Appleton and had 30 gallons left over when I landed.  Appleton to eastern MA took 5 hours.  The highest level flight speed on Foreflight  at 16,900 feet was 192 kts (perhaps 20 kt tailwind).   Fuel burn was 10.5 to perhaps 11 gallons per hour 100-125 ROP.   It makes for a pretty respectable retirement plane.

John Breda

 

 

 

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