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TruTrak Autopilot Pre Order's / Status Update


Jeev

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10 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I have a question about the tt... can it track a non-gps signal?  I understand it’s not certified for approaches (yet), but can it even track an ILS or VOR or is it just a GPS baby?  I’ve got a GNS430, so easy to switch between gps and vor/lic.

 Ummmm…..   Yes...

Kinda not WHAT it tracks as HOW it tracks..

 

If you wish to read for a few...   :)

The TT has one ARINC 429 input and one RS232 input , both inputs use the same connections..  It listens to 232 data initially, but internally switches to ARINC if it is present.

If the VOR is digital, the ILS is digital, your GPS is digital, the DG is digital, and your HSI is digital, -  it will follow any of them as long as the ARINC 427 data sentence has the standard order.  The TT (or any digital AP) does not know WHAT it is listening to, or cares, - it just points the aircraft where it is being told to..

Problem is, most of the above output steering instructions in our OLD aircraft are in the old  ANALOGUE  (++150Mv) format. Good in its time, but this format can send only ONE steering signal at a time. (Vertical or lateral) Any flags etc. have to have a separate wire for each flag or digit. (ARINC can send gobs of information in a single wire)

So, if you have modern digital instruments outputting in ARINC data, the new breed of digital autopilots are happy.

This is why some of us are excited about the coming TT integration with the Aspen and G5. With the aspen, it understands the "old" format, accepts  (say your old analogue VOR) the signal, translates it to ARINC and sends it on to the TT which happily does what it is told. Your GPS Navigator outputs whatever you need by a menu selection. Mine will output the old format and several types of ARINC sentences.

So the Aspen will accept this data in whatever format the instrument sends (even a radar altimeter) and acts as a "switch", selecting whatever instrument you want to follow, translates whatever information it is using, sends it on to the AP in ARINC format and everybody plays together. I suspect the Garmin G3X may do much the same thing.

The Aspen will do this now. What we expect will happen (waiting game again, Aspen has some work to do, and this has to be approved by FAA) is you will be able to set the Baro , Alt, VS and heading on either equipment and it will synchronise to the other instrument. Most VFR functions will be set on the Aspen and the TT will follow along obediently. The TT head will be (mostly) relegated to an "On - Off" switch...

Your GNS 430 will function as this source "switch" and enable the TT to follow your VOR and ILS or RNAV or whatever your 430 is tasked to do at the time.

FWIW, I heard from one Cherokee driver who tested the 430WAAS and TT on an approach. It flew the aircraft through the entire approach,  power changes, flap extensions (calling for trim) and it flew to the Rny centerline in a 7-10 knot crosswind until he "squeezed and flared" at 5 ft. alt. ("squeezing" refers to the CWS switch on the yoke, discoing the AP)

Apologise for the long answer to a short question... but this may be helpful to some...  :)

Nav

 

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Awesome, really helpful.  So, if I read it right, my 430w output is arinc, so if I have it tracking VLOC for an ILS, it will output that signal on the arinc and the tt will track it.  

The Cherokee driver you referenced... what type of approach?  Can it do that on an ILS as long as it’s receiving the ils signal from an arinc source?

Also, what happens if you have a legacy HSI like a KI525? Can you use the heading bug to direct the tt for say vectors? Or no because it’s the old analog signal and it’s not being put through an Aspen or G3x to “upgrade “ to arinc?

Edited by Ragsf15e
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Thanks Navi! This is way more info than TT is providing, although it makes the Mooney STC delay even more frustrating for those of us who have had an INOP autopilot for over a year.  More time to save those nickels and dimes for the TT and Aspen I suppose.

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On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 1:39 PM, Ragsf15e said:

Awesome, really helpful.  So, if I read it right, my 430w output is arinc, so if I have it tracking VLOC for an ILS, it will output that signal on the arinc and the tt will track it.  

The Cherokee driver you referenced... what type of approach?  Can it do that on an ILS as long as it’s receiving the ils signal from an arinc source?

Also, what happens if you have a legacy HSI like a KI525? Can you use the heading bug to direct the tt for say vectors? Or no because it’s the old analog signal and it’s not being put through an Aspen or G3x to “upgrade “ to arinc?

>>>Awesome, really helpful.  So, if I read it right, my 430w output is arinc, so if I have it tracking VLOC for an ILS, it will output that signal on the arinc and the tt will track it.  

(Corrected, Thanks to Jesse)… The AP will only follow the LATERAL (GPS Data sentence) You need to go to the ARINC Config page, Select      Speed = Low     Data+429 GAMA      Enable  "LABELS in the VNAV row.   Then go to Ch #1 for the RS 232 line and select "AVIATION "  (This sets the correct  data sentence structure/format)   Set the BAUD RATE to -9600 (it's probably already there) The three wires (pins 8,10,29) go straight to the TT, or a select switch (or the Aspen) and that should do it!

>>>>The Cherokee driver you referenced... what type of approach?  Can it do that on an ILS as long as it’s receiving the ils signal from an arinc source?

Arrrrugh!  Missed that detail... I believe it was an RNAV approach…

The KI525 unfortunately uses the old analogue format (21 wires!!) communication.  It would have to be hooked to the Aspen System  (Aspen makes an adapter to translate the information) , then on the  E5 and on to the TT in ARINC mode.  DO allow $$$ for the adaptor, not cheap - the circuitry to accomplish the translation from the old format to ARINC 429 is involved.. ...

Cap

 

Edited by Navi
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That is not correct, Navi. The TT will only fly rs232 gps data or arinc429 gps data. It will NOT fly arinc429 VOR/ILS data. The Avidyne ifd’s are eventually going to convert the VOR/ILS data to a gps format, but the 430 does not do this and never will. In response to the original question, the TruTrak will ONLY fly a gps data stream. Without that gps data it will only fly bank angle laterally and will still do altitude hold, vertical speed select and altitude preselected. 

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1 hour ago, Jesse Saint said:

That is not correct, Navi. The TT will only fly rs232 gps data or arinc429 gps data. It will NOT fly arinc429 VOR/ILS data. The Avidyne ifd’s are eventually going to convert the VOR/ILS data to a gps format, but the 430 does not do this and never will. In response to the original question, the TruTrak will ONLY fly a gps data stream. Without that gps data it will only fly bank angle laterally and will still do altitude hold, vertical speed select and altitude preselected. 

OK, I can stand corrected .. thank you!

So the 430 will only output data from an RNAV approach, NOT  include the data outputs from the LOC/GS ?  

Corrected, and will correct my source!

So the only way to get a TT to fly an ILS is to convert the Nav VOR/GS steering information through the Aspen system...  So when the Avidyne eventually does this, the Aspen will just pass it through in GPS data format to the AP..

'Pologies to  WiskeyTango. Ragsf15e and Mim20c (Nav hangs head and shuffles feet)

HELLO RNAV!  :)

Nav

 

 

Edited by Navi
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Most IFR gps/Nav/coms will make a gps overlay of the lateral portion of a VOR, Loc or ILS approach, which the TT will fly. There is no vertical overlay...yet. Aspen has made some promises of eventually doing this, or some sort of this, but with their current record of delivery failures I wouldn’t hold my breath. 

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I purchased a S-TEC 30 this week for our m20c . I was trying to wait for the true trac but it sounds as if it will be quite a while before it is ready for the m20 . WE also purchased a st-901 GPSS converter to go with our GTN-650. Does anyone have experience with how well those units  work together ???

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I purchased a S-TEC 30 this week for our m20c . I was trying to wait for the true trac but it sounds as if it will be quite a while before it is ready for the m20 . WE also purchased a st-901 GPSS converter to go with our GTN-650. Does anyone have experience with how well those units  work together ???

I had same setup except I had a S-Tec 50....works great.

Just be sure the 901 is configured for your HSI (it should be labeled).

 

Tom

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14 hours ago, mark21m20c said:

I purchased a S-TEC 30 this week for our m20c . I was trying to wait for the true trac but it sounds as if it will be quite a while before it is ready for the m20 . WE also purchased a st-901 GPSS converter to go with our GTN-650. Does anyone have experience with how well those units  work together ???

I have that setup with a gns430.  Works great.  Do you have altitude hold?

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1 hour ago, mark21m20c said:

Yes altitude hold on S-TEC 30 and two g5 GTX 346 gma345 and gnc 255 . The only thing still to purchase is ELT ???

Thank you for the feed back it is much appreciated !!!!

Wait. You have G5s and bought the st901? What did I miss?

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1 hour ago, mark21m20c said:

Yes altitude hold on S-TEC 30 and two g5 GTX 346 gma345 and gnc 255 . The only thing still to purchase is ELT ???

Thank you for the feed back it is much appreciated !!!!

Ahhhh ….. Vorlon1 beat me to it...

Missed something as well...

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

FWIW...

Spoke to Steve at TruTrak last week … Latest from him was there were "bundling" the STC applications for the G5<> TT interface, the Aspen <> TT interface,  the fix for a couple of small TT firmware bugs and the Mooney installation into one submission. They would like to have it approved by Osh, -  but the FAA is double examining everything now as a result of the Boeing MAX fiasco .

Delays expected...  :(

 

Nav

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Honestly that was one of my first thoughts after the Boeing Max fiasco, 

Nothing gets through the FAA now (especially autopilots) unless all the Ts are crossed and the Is dotted twice or three times. The FAA got slapped in the face and heads will eventually roll. 

Damn it! I'm sitting apart in the hangar waiting for the TT. No interior. Maybe I'll run a small bundle of wires matching the wiring in a Cherokee and stub them off fore and aft of the cabin so I don't have to remove the entire interior when it comes to market.

 

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9 hours ago, Navi said:

 

FWIW...

Spoke to Steve at TruTrak last week … Latest from him was there were "bundling" the STC applications for the G5<> TT interface, the Aspen <> TT interface,  the fix for a couple of small TT firmware bugs and the Mooney installation into one submission. They would like to have it approved by Osh, -  but the FAA is double examining everything now as a result of the Boeing MAX fiasco .

Delays expected...  :(

 

Nav

Any idea what the spec’s are for the G5 interface, functions it will control?

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9 hours ago, cliffy said:

Honestly that was one of my first thoughts after the Boeing Max fiasco, 

Nothing gets through the FAA now (especially autopilots) unless all the Ts are crossed and the Is dotted twice or three times. The FAA got slapped in the face and heads will eventually roll. 

Damn it! I'm sitting apart in the hangar waiting for the TT. No interior. Maybe I'll run a small bundle of wires matching the wiring in a Cherokee and stub them off fore and aft of the cabin so I don't have to remove the entire interior when it comes to market.

 

Darn!

 

Call Zach  at TT, explain the situation …. ask him where they intend to run the wires, and buy the cables to the servos!  (2)     Zach told me that they had the servo locations figured out a few weeks ago..  The two servo cables are in the complete harness, terminating in the big plug at the head. (with power ,grounds, data wires etc... )

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9 hours ago, gacoon said:

Any idea what the spec’s are for the G5 interface, functions it will control?

 Latest "noise" so far, is that just the" heading" will be available off the G5 to the TT. Concern also that Garmin may change the data format to prevent interface with other equipment..

Ya, I know... but heard this  from 3 sources now.... :(

 

Nav

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  Concern also that Garmin may change the data format to prevent interface with other equipment..
Ya, I know... but heard this  from 3 sources now....
 
Nav


I heard the same thing. Was going to order an Aspen for my May annual but am going to wait for the TT integration before I buy. Likely both for my next May annual.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, NJMac said:


 

 

 


I heard the same thing. Was going to order an Aspen for my May annual but am going to wait for the TT integration before I buy. Likely both for my next May annual.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

 

 

I spoke with both last week on this, as an Aspen is in our future as well.

If installed before the integration is complete, both the TT and Aspen will need a firmware upgrade. The TT going back to the factory, the Aspen can be flashed by any dealer..

Planned for next winter, unless our DG goes south.. (getting noisy)

Looks like Garmin is really serious about NOT integrating with other products....  :(

FWIW!     :)

 

 

Edited by Navi
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24 minutes ago, Navi said:

Looks like Garmin is really serious about NOT integrating with other products....  :(

FWIW!     :)

Garmin did not win any points with me when they pounced on someone trying to sell a SV unlock. They literally hunted the dealer down with pitch forks ready. 

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