Jump to content

TruTrak Autopilot Pre Order's / Status Update


Jeev

Recommended Posts

On 7/16/2020 at 8:54 PM, J. mitchell said:

I looked at the TruTrak website earlier this afternoon and noticed that the Mooney pre order picture was no longer there.  I am hoping that TruTrak has not abandoned our vintage Mooneys.  When at OSH a couple of years ago there was a Mooney M20E, I believe, with a TruTrak autopilot installed. I was told to expect it to be available for my C model within 6 months...still waiting....

Just an update on my comments on the TruTrak autopilot, now Aerocruze100: I sent an email to Bendix King and just received a note that all the paperwork for the STC for vintage Mooney Aircraft has been submitted to the FAA.  No comment as to why it hasn’t yet been approved for our aircraft.  So it appears the ball is in the FAA,s hands. If anyone has ideas on how to get the FAA to work faster on the STC please post them.  I believe this autopilot would add significantly to our safety.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, J. mitchell said:

If anyone has ideas on how to get the FAA to work faster on the STC please post them.  

Make it a campaign issue...

Certain Covid related drugs have reached a status at the FDA to get priority status handling...
 

It may help to have a few Million Mooney voters to go along with you....  :)

Best regards,

 -a-

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, J. mitchell said:

BTW there are only 5 million identified cases of COVID19 in the U.S. and 330 million people. It is difficult for me to believe the virus is slowing down the approval of an autopilot.....

J,

he was looking for a reason to speed up the approval of the autopilot, not slow it down... :)

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, J. mitchell said:

BTW there are only 5 million identified cases of COVID19 in the U.S. and 330 million people. It is difficult for me to believe the virus is slowing down the approval of an autopilot.....

Yes, but all government jobs were cut down to minimum required personnel, so they don't consider auto pilot approval to be required, I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Basically not much work is being done at the FAA right now. I've been trying to contact anyone in Maint in the LAS office for over a month and no one even returns a phone call. Everyone is "working" remotely. No one even answers the phone, only voice mail. Wish I had a job like that when I was working and getting paid. HELLO KNOCK KNOCK ANYONE HOME?

For the last 2 weeks we have averaged around 1,000 deaths a day in the US from COVID.

Total confirmed deaths (if the number is accurate which even Dr Brix says may be inflated by 25%) 166,600 as of 8/14  giving a chance of dying from COVID vs total USA population at   0.049%   To round it up it reads five one hundredths of one percent.   Using Dr Brix's numbers it would be 0.036% A little over 3 hundredths of one percent.  Smoking related deaths average 1,300/day in the USA  Heart disease 1780/day  1643/day to cancer. 

For the last 2 weeks CONFIRMED new cases averaged a little over 50,000/day in the USA   0.014% of the population.  Fourteen thousandths of 1% of total population

Maybe my Christmas present will be a new autopilot?   :-)

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Basically not much work is being done at the FAA right now. I've been trying to contact anyone in Maint in the LAS office for over a month and no one even returns a phone call. Everyone is "working" remotely. No one even answers the phone, only voice mail. Wish I had a job like that when I was working and getting paid. HELLO KNOCK KNOCK ANYONE HOME?
For the last 2 weeks we have averaged around 1,000 deaths a day in the US from COVID.
Total confirmed deaths (if the number is accurate which even Dr Brix says may be inflated by 25%) 166,600 as of 8/14  giving a chance of dying from COVID vs total USA population at   0.049%   To round it up it reads five one hundredths of one percent.   Using Dr Brix's numbers it would be 0.036% A little over 3 hundredths of one percent.  Smoking related deaths average 1,300/day in the USA  Heart disease 1780/day  1643/day to cancer. 
For the last 2 weeks CONFIRMED new cases averaged a little over 50,000/day in the USA   0.014% of the population.  Fourteen thousandths of 1% of total population
Maybe my Christmas present will be a new autopilot?   :-)
 
Facts don't drive the government. Stop bringing them into the discussion, you'll just make the bureaucrats even more confused.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even the «Greatest» ;)

 

Installation of Rudder Cable Guard

AUGUST 10, 2020 

PRODUCTS AFFECTED:

GFC 500 Autopilots with Electronic Stability and Protection installed under Part 23 AML STC (STC SA01866WI, Master Drawing List, Revisions 1 through 37) in the Textron Aviation (Cessna) Model 172 are affected.


CERTIFICATION AUTHORIZATION:

AML STC SA01866WI


COMPLIANCE:

MANDATORY: Compliance with this STC service bulletin is mandatory at the next 100-hour/annual inspection, not to exceed 6 months.


PURPOSE:

During certain aircraft operating conditions, the co-pilot side main rudder cable becomes slack and may fall below parts of the electrical connector for the pitch servo. When the cable tension returns, the cable may remain under one of the electrical connector screws.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/24/2020 at 11:57 PM, cliffy said:

What has been the outcome of the Trio system? I guess I missed that one.

I would not install a Trio, it is a rate based autopilot. You really want an attitude based autopilot for best control. 

And, we need to be grateful that any company is willing to develop new products for long out of production airplanes, whose population gets smaller by the day. And those planes are, for the most part, owned by Certified CB's with PhD's in CB'ing. 

Edited by philiplane
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ummm.. Information I have is that the Trio is digital, attitude based.. ?

But to the posters question...

In Pipers...  FWIW...

Been a few, expensive and difficult installations. Lottsa  adjusting but once setup, works well.  There is a perceived lack of enthusiasm by the owners, but they seem to be satisfied with the way it flies the plane.

Some have not worked out, noticeably on the C182s and PA - 32s, seems the pitch servo is not strong enough  for the pitch forces on the heavier airframes. (?)  TruTrak, pulled back their PA-32 version to redesign the pitch system and upgrade the torque of the pitch servo (TT have several servos, and the torque is adjustable  on them) because they "didn't like the way it flew the plane" . Was a 6 month delay, but the PA-32 guys are happy now.

All this gleaned from others, but seems not much going on in the Trio world that I have observed. On the Cessna forums, there have been several  removed from 182s.

Others may have more/better information...  :)

Nav

Edited by Navi
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Navi said:

Ummm.. Information I have is that the Trio is digital, attitude based.. ?

 

Others may have more/better information...  :)

Nav

The Trio Pro Pilot is a rate-based autopilot, but unlike other designs that use a mechanical turn coordinator for roll input (S-TEC and BendixKing's KAP140), the Trio has self-contained solid-state inertial rate sensors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, philiplane said:

The Trio Pro Pilot is a rate-based autopilot, but unlike other designs that use a mechanical turn coordinator for roll input (S-TEC and BendixKing's KAP140), the Trio has self-contained solid-state inertial rate sensors.

Thank you for this..

I have never seen this mentioned as a difference between Trio and the TruTrak - Garmin systems...

Nav

Link to comment
Share on other sites

long time lurker first time poster.

I am in a prebuy inspection that if it goes through I will have a 1979 mooney 231 that will not have ads-b and mostly has original avionics equipment with a century 41 autopilot. 

If you had to update original equipment, how would you do it?

I was originally looking at the L3-9000+ and a IFD440 but then stumbled on the Dynon conversation.

The Dynon package looks like the best bang for the buck even if I can't use an autopilot with that system now. I live in Dallas TX and was going to get a ferry flight permit to Don Maxwell to get an annual done but noticed he was not an authorized Dynon dealer.  I see there is a Dynon dealer at addison airport in the DFW area but have not heard back from them.

Sarasota Avionics is a Dynon dealer and Mooney service center where I could get my annual done as well.  A one stop shop.  I noticed Saint Aviation has actually done a Dynon install into  mooney 231 (922PT) which I like the fact they have experience with the install and could quote a price with reasonable assurance of the labor since they have already done one but, I was wondering if they do annuals on mooneys as they seem to be more focused on RV line of customers.

The amount of time wasted waiting on the FAA does concern me as the autopilot works now and the thought of upgrading to Dynon now and not being able to use the autopilot is not attractive. 

The other route would be install a IFD440 now as I would need that with the Dynon system anyways for GPS approches and get the cheapest ads-b unit I could find (the uAvioni tailbeacon comes to mind) to get the airplane compliant and just fly it until the Dynon autopilot situation gets sorted out.

Also will the AK-1081 GPSS interface the autopilot with the IFD440 or Dynon?

The garmin route just seems to expensive for what you get.  Maybe I'm overlooking something on garmin but also the G5 screen just seems too small.  I get it's that way to fit into a standard hole but if you are going to be redoing the majority of the avionics then a new custom panel is not expensive compared to everything else.

Thoughts, suggestions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Will.iam  I think you’re going to find avionics are expensive. Not just the equipment but the install as well.  A couple G5’s run about 8k installed, add a AP and you could be around 20.  A full Dynon with 440 and a new panel might touch 50k especially if you push the plane into Sarasota’s shop. Good luck and enjoy the adventure. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not only has Saint Aviation installed Dynons in Mooneys, Cessna, and Beech; including experimentals, they may have installed more Dynons than just about anyone.  Jesse Saint suggest to me that I do my upgrade in two steps, an audio panel and a Avidyne 540. At the time, Avidyne had a deal with a free transponder making the combo no more money than a 440.  Later go back for the Dynon when their autopilot is available.

There is no substitute for talking directly with any shop about the capabilities.  Can Saint do the annual? Can Maxwell do the radios?

Sadly TruTrac and Dynon both seem to be stuck in the race to market with the FAA blocking their way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Will.iam said:

long time lurker first time poster.

I am in a prebuy inspection that if it goes through I will have a 1979 mooney 231 that will not have ads-b and mostly has original avionics equipment with a century 41 autopilot. 

If you had to update original equipment, how would you do it?

I was originally looking at the L3-9000+ and a IFD440 but then stumbled on the Dynon conversation.

The Dynon package looks like the best bang for the buck even if I can't use an autopilot with that system now. I live in Dallas TX and was going to get a ferry flight permit to Don Maxwell to get an annual done but noticed he was not an authorized Dynon dealer.  I see there is a Dynon dealer at addison airport in the DFW area but have not heard back from them.

Sarasota Avionics is a Dynon dealer and Mooney service center where I could get my annual done as well.  A one stop shop.  I noticed Saint Aviation has actually done a Dynon install into  mooney 231 (922PT) which I like the fact they have experience with the install and could quote a price with reasonable assurance of the labor since they have already done one but, I was wondering if they do annuals on mooneys as they seem to be more focused on RV line of customers.

The amount of time wasted waiting on the FAA does concern me as the autopilot works now and the thought of upgrading to Dynon now and not being able to use the autopilot is not attractive. 

The other route would be install a IFD440 now as I would need that with the Dynon system anyways for GPS approches and get the cheapest ads-b unit I could find (the uAvioni tailbeacon comes to mind) to get the airplane compliant and just fly it until the Dynon autopilot situation gets sorted out.

Also will the AK-1081 GPSS interface the autopilot with the IFD440 or Dynon?

The garmin route just seems to expensive for what you get.  Maybe I'm overlooking something on garmin but also the G5 screen just seems too small.  I get it's that way to fit into a standard hole but if you are going to be redoing the majority of the avionics then a new custom panel is not expensive compared to everything else.

Thoughts, suggestions?

I wouldn't confuse the annual with the avionics install - those are two separate things. If this airplane is out of annual why not have the pre-buy done at Maxwell (even if he maintained it at one point) and turn it into an annual if you decide to go ahead? Otherwise after the pre-buy, the shop that does your annual is invariably going to find airworthy items that the other shop didn't find. Those items should be up for negotiation with the Seller. Get the airplane sorted out first and then deal with the avionics, but I would fly the airplane for a bit while you look at avionics options. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What @LANCECASPER said. 

A Don Maxwell annual is just about the best thing you can do for your Mooney. I wouldn't skip that just because they can't install a Dynon system.

Secondly, I'd slow down a bit on the avionics. Fly the plane for a while first. Be sure that it's the plane you'll want to fly for the next several/many years. It's easy to make a quick $50,000 mistake with avionics. (The guy you sell it to will thank you, but won't pay you for it.) If it turns out to be your forever plane, then by all means, install the panel of your dreams. But there isn't any way you can know that for sure at this point. 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Will.iam said:

The other route would be install a IFD440 now as I would need that with the Dynon system anyways for GPS approches and get the cheapest ads-b unit I could find (the uAvioni tailbeacon comes to mind) to get the airplane compliant and just fly it until the Dynon autopilot situation gets sorted out.

Lance and Paul are spot on with their advice.

Some things to consider. The Dynon can't give the C41 attitude info so if you installed a skyview you would still need to retain your AI.  If you have a flight director (you probably do), I think you need to keep that front and center to stay legal. But I have seen plenty of installs ignore this so I might be wrong.  So waiting for the Dynon autopilot makes sense.  In my opinion Dynon doesn't offer much until the autopilot is certified. 

Cheep adsb solutions like the Tailbeacon are UAT only so you are only good up to 17,999.  Even if you intend to only cruise in the mid-teens there will be times you will want/need to go to 18 or above.

If it were me, and it sort of is I as I'm in a similar situation.  I'm going with an IFD540 with a remote NGT9000 and a G5 for my HSI.  I will fly this hopefully for a very long time, until my C41 throws in the towel.  When it does I will look at my autopilot options, Dynon will get a hard look if it's certified by then. 

You didn't mention an engine monitor.  If there isn't one that should go to the top of the list, right with the adsb and navigator.  The first thing I did with my 231 was install a JPI900. 

Cheers,

Dan

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I wouldn't confuse the annual with the avionics install - those are two separate things. If this airplane is out of annual why not have the pre-buy done at Maxwell (even if he maintained it at one point) and turn it into an annual if you decide to go ahead? Otherwise after the pre-buy, the shop that does your annual is invariably going to find airworthy items that the other shop didn't find. Those items should be up for negotiation with the Seller. Get the airplane sorted out first and then deal with the avionics, but I would fly the airplane for a bit while you look at avionics options. 

I agree with this. Your annual should be done at least fairly locally to you. You want someone who can help with maintenance year-round. The Avionics install is not the same way, and while it may save some time doing the annual and avionics installations at the same time, it is not a significant savings. We have done Dynon installations on dozens of certified planes, including Mooneys. We do annual inspections too, but not on Mooneys and I would still recommend you get that done locally. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys all good points. I guess I was just trying to save money by combining the annual with the avionics upgrade but from Jesse's point it's not that much of a savings. And I guess I could always have the 9000 talk to the Dynon instead of getting their ADS-B even though that would have been cheaper it's not cheap if I decide I'm not going to keep this plane long term.  It does have an old jpi100 I don't even know if that is upgradable to an 830 or not.

Dan you mentioned a remote 9000 does that mean you don't get the front face plate and all the info is feed into the IFD540? saving panel real estate? Why the G5 for hsi? is the autopilot getting it's attitude from the G5?

Lance, can't do the pre-buy at Maxwell because the plane is in Canada.  Right now I'm trying to track down a DAR in NY area that can sign a special ferry flight permit once it's deregistered out of Canada so I can bring it down to Maxwell for the annual it will need for a Certificate of Airworthiness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.