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TruTrak Autopilot Pre Order's / Status Update


Jeev

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I'm moving on. Looking at other options BK has no incentive to certify an airplane be with a diminishing population when they can go to light sprt expanding it's numbers

It'll never happen for short bodies. I'm checking Trio and others Maybe a new panel with (gag) Garmin

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OK,  so you are a tough crowd, so be it....

But why trash a guy who has been successful when others were not, and is making tough decisions to get his product to market sooner for guys like you?

What will be, will be, … but Andrew is not on this earth to make an autopilot for YOU or ME. He has to make a future for himself and his family, and that has to guide his thoughts and decisions.

I did some snooping... The big guys are getting the attention of the FAA, little guys are not. This might fix it. The backlog of orders at TT is crazy and growing. Approval of the Mooney STC when it happens, will result in several hundred MORE orders. It is a real problem, they have people building autopilots that should be designing new installations/STCs. They have hired more staff, but it takes a while to bring production on stream. This might fix that too. But their backlog of orders is a HUGE problem, and getting worse daily. The STC application for the Mooneys  has been sent in, on time, the rest is up to the FAA. So of you must, beat on THEM now.

Fact..  There are more TT autopilots being installed these days than ALL OTHER BRANDS COMBINED.

Fact.. If you are not in the preorder list, you will wait even longer, because this AP is flying the PA32s and 182s exactly as it should, the word is out, and THEY are calling...

Have you checked out Andrew's vid on their FB page.. ?  Check it out, then throw more darts if you must...

I waited for my  TT, and it has more than met expectations.. and Andrew says he is keeping the hat.... :)

YMMV...

Nav

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On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 1:56 PM, DustinNwind said:

I talked to TT yesterday and they said now it won't be till the fall/ late summer most likely. 

Yeah, but they're BK now so you've also gotta ask "fall of which year?"

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OK,  so you are a tough crowd, so be it....
But why trash a guy who has been successful when others were not, and is making tough decisions to get his product to market sooner for guys like you?
What will be, will be, … but Andrew is not on this earth to make an autopilot for YOU or ME. He has to make a future for himself and his family, and that has to guide his thoughts and decisions.
I did some snooping... The big guys are getting the attention of the FAA, little guys are not. This might fix it. The backlog of orders at TT is crazy and growing. Approval of the Mooney STC when it happens, will result in several hundred MORE orders. It is a real problem, they have people building autopilots that should be designing new installations/STCs. They have hired more staff, but it takes a while to bring production on stream. This might fix that too. But their backlog of orders is a HUGE problem, and getting worse daily. The STC application for the Mooneys  has been sent in, on time, the rest is up to the FAA. So of you must, beat on THEM now.
Fact..  There are more TT autopilots being installed these days than ALL OTHER BRANDS COMBINED.
Fact.. If you are not in the preorder list, you will wait even longer, because this AP is flying the PA32s and 182s exactly as it should, the word is out, and THEY are calling...
Have you checked out Andrew's vid on their FB page.. ?  Check it out, then throw more darts if you must...
I waited for my  TT, and it has more than met expectations.. and Andrew says he is keeping the hat.... :)
YMMV...
Nav
If one cant b!tch then can one really fly? I'm pleased to be good at both.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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I am retired now, but I was involved in the early stages of not one, but two upstart tech companies that went through hyper growth and acquisition.  I’ve seen it up close and personal.  I have utmost respect for such visionaries that can not only imagine and create such things, but also have the entrepreneurial spirit to make it happen.  They make jobs and further the borders of technology.  I get it!  They also are frequently put in the position of having to make tough choices.

Sometimes those choices are paradoxical.  It is obvious that such choices will and should favor themselves and their families.  I have no problem with that.  What I do have a problem with is leading people to believe things that are not known FOR SURE to be true to include passing on someone else’s promises without studying them and their consequences carefully.  In the software business, we called it vaporware.  People do not intentionally lie about upcoming products, but they tend to believe what they want to believe will come to pass.  Watching such things I learned early on that it is always best in the long run to paint the picture conservatively and not set customers or anyone’s expectations with hopes that are based on things that are not as close to certainty as they can be, especially when depending on entities on which you have no control.

The founder and innovator at Trutrak is young.  I expect and sincerely hope that he learns that being cautiously optimistic and even brutally honest will serve him and all those who depend on him from employees to investors to customers best.

 

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Let's go back a bit - we were told almost a year ago that Mooney's were next Then we were told that they were holding for an announcement at OSH. Then we were told they were a little delayed as they were making a multiple submission to the FAA   We were told again they expected to submit before OSH Then we were told again they were expecting an announcement at OSH   with many of us expecting approval then. Now we hear that they were sold to BK AND that NO submission had been done yet NOW. YOU say they have submitted to the FAA. What the heck is true and what is not?  

If in fact they have made a Mooney submission THEY need to make a formal announcement NOT anyone out in the field THEY need to do it

THEY need to let us know just what they are willing to do or what BK is now willing to do. Some of us have been on hold for a long time on their "promises".   Many of you were not around in thee days of Jim Bede and others who made long promises and had no completion. Some of us are gun shy to this type of promising the world and not completing 

We know they can't tell when the FAA will certify but they certainly can say if they have submitted OR why they haven't

They need to communicate what they have done and plan to do to keep those of us who have supported them for so long 

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Integrated vs. component.  So when the integrated system fails.  Garmin or Dynon then depending you may be on your sole back up which is more catastrophic than just a component that would fail.   On the other side trying to get all the components from various vendors to work together has proved to be an issue in the past.   So marketplace wise we have offerings for modern panels but the certified A/P remains elusive. I am still betting on the integrated approach.   What's funny about the A/P market is it is not the software that is hard, it is the attachment of the servos to the plane.   My friend with the Dynon in the Barron had to get a DER to stamp the servo mount.   Which had a hole moved like half an inch from the other servo that was mounted to the wing.  So when the TT STC gets done is your preferred guidance component going to be approved to hook up to?  So that is a risk. Meanwhile back at the ranch, it's time to get busy to install some hardware and software with the Dynon.

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2 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

I am retired now, but I was involved in the early stages of not one, but two upstart tech companies that went through hyper growth and acquisition.  I’ve seen it up close and personal.  I have utmost respect for such visionaries that can not only imagine and create such things, but also have the entrepreneurial spirit to make it happen.  They make jobs and further the borders of technology.  I get it!  They also are frequently put in the position of having to make tough choices.

Sometimes those choices are paradoxical.  It is obvious that such choices will and should favor themselves and their families.  I have no problem with that.  What I do have a problem with is leading people to believe things that are not known FOR SURE to be true to include passing on someone else’s promises without studying them and their consequences carefully.  In the software business, we called it vaporware.  People do not intentionally lie about upcoming products, but they tend to believe what they want to believe will come to pass.  Watching such things I learned early on that it is always best in the long run to paint the picture conservatively and not set customers or anyone’s expectations with hopes that are based on things that are not as close to certainty as they can be, especially when depending on entities on which you have no control.

The founder and innovator at Trutrak is young.  I expect and sincerely hope that he learns that being cautiously optimistic and even brutally honest will serve him and all those who depend on him from employees to investors to customers best.

 

The best course is what I do at work when buying / repairing / modifying equipment for the production floor:  underpromise and overdeliver. Then people are happy when I finish up several days early instead of being angry because I took the time to fix something that broke and now what they want wasn't ready yesterday . . .

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And people wonder why I say, never buy a Mooney without an autopilot. Someday we might have choices, upgrades, etc. Today there isn't anything for the short bodies and precious little for the rest. 

If you happen to own a short body Mooney with a working Stec30/altitude hold, it might be worth more today than it's ever been.

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52 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

And people wonder why I say, never buy a Mooney without an autopilot. Someday we might have choices, upgrades, etc. Today there isn't anything for the short bodies and precious little for the rest. 

If you happen to own a short body Mooney with a working Stec30/altitude hold, it might be worth more today than it's ever been.

I would think realistically Dynon is probably a year to year/half out for A/P on the Mooney.   Even a 2 axis Accutrac is a good crutch since the mooney is so easy to trim out.   Maybe give Avidyne time to respond with the Garmin 175/comm

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5 hours ago, Navi said:

OK,  so you are a tough crowd, so be it....

But why trash a guy who has been successful when others were not, and is making tough decisions to get his product to market sooner for guys like you?

What will be, will be, … but Andrew is not on this earth to make an autopilot for YOU or ME. He has to make a future for himself and his family, and that has to guide his thoughts and decisions.

I did some snooping... The big guys are getting the attention of the FAA, little guys are not. This might fix it. The backlog of orders at TT is crazy and growing. Approval of the Mooney STC when it happens, will result in several hundred MORE orders. It is a real problem, they have people building autopilots that should be designing new installations/STCs. They have hired more staff, but it takes a while to bring production on stream. This might fix that too. But their backlog of orders is a HUGE problem, and getting worse daily. The STC application for the Mooneys  has been sent in, on time, the rest is up to the FAA. So of you must, beat on THEM now.

Fact..  There are more TT autopilots being installed these days than ALL OTHER BRANDS COMBINED.

Fact.. If you are not in the preorder list, you will wait even longer, because this AP is flying the PA32s and 182s exactly as it should, the word is out, and THEY are calling...

Have you checked out Andrew's vid on their FB page.. ?  Check it out, then throw more darts if you must...

I waited for my  TT, and it has more than met expectations.. and Andrew says he is keeping the hat.... :)

YMMV...

Nav

Navi, I don't think I've read anyone bashing Andrew or any personal attacks on anyone at TT. I think a lot of people are just frustrated with unfulfilled promises. I can only speak for myself - I'm frustrated that I've been promised a product over and over and it keeps getting pushed back. I bought a plane,which is substantial amount of money for me, based on those promises . This has obviously been a lesson learned. I should have heeded @gsxrpilot recommendation a long time ago but trusted a companies multiple promises. I still love my mooney but I bought it to fly 4+ hours  to my ranch, not to fly and get a hamburger a hour away.  

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Not that I have a choice, but I’ll keep waiting, with my name on Jeev’s list.  

In the meantime, I’ll continue to handfly.  I’ve crossed the country more than once, near 600 hours in my C in the last 2 years.  It’s really not a chore.  It keeps me awake.  It keeps me sharp.  But someday, fingers crossed, I’ll get an autopilot.  

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I talked with TT today and played with the Aspen/Garmin G5 interface. They said the (interface) paperwork has been in submitted and expect it back in the next month or two. I know, I know but this will be a good solution for us Aspen owners.  With the stec setback I’m excited to see how well the combo works. 

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6 hours ago, Navi said:

But why trash a guy who has been successful when others were not, and is making tough decisions to get his product to market sooner for guys like you?

BK/ Honeywell will help bring this product to market sooner?

6 hours ago, Navi said:

What will be, will be, … but Andrew is not on this earth to make an autopilot for YOU or ME. He has to make a future for himself and his family, and that has to guide his thoughts and decisions.

It's business and everyone gets it. However, what was good for him and his family may not be very good for the AP market. Hopefully he was paid handsomely and his family benefits greatly.

6 hours ago, Navi said:

They have hired more staff, but it takes a while to bring production on stream. This might fix that too. But their backlog of orders is a HUGE problem, and getting worse daily.

The problem is that they have too many orders and too high of a market potential to hire and train a workforce?

6 hours ago, Navi said:

The STC application for the Mooneys  has been sent in, on time, the rest is up to the FAA.

Can someone at TT quantify what "on time" means? Their "projected" timeline has succeeded in confusing everyone.

 

 

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Just now, David_H said:

BK/ Honeywell will help bring this product to market sooner?

It's business and everyone gets it. However, what was good for him and his family may not be very good for the AP market. Hopefully he was paid handsomely and his family benefits greatly.

The problem is that they have too many orders and too high of a market potential to hire and train a workforce?

Can someone at TT quantify what "on time" means? Their "projected" timeline has succeeded in confusing everyone.

 

 

Can or will someone actually from TT respond to the question above They have the ability to say something here. I want to hear directly from them that the Mooney paperwork has in fact been submitted

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Hey guys -  I haven’t commented because I don’t have any new info to contribute.  I did reach out to my contacts at TruTrak and gave them a link to this thread,  I am hoping they are able to chime in with some information straight from the source. 

As some have said the product is absolutely great and does everything as advertised.  I have now flown multiple installs in both Pipers and Cessnas and am very happy with the performance of the Vizion and the support from TruTrak.  My hope is that now that TT is a part of larger company the resources will be put to use with approvals and addressing the growing pains of an innovative company. I also hope that the price point, approval pipeline and dealer relationships will stay the same.  Time will tell and I am looking forward to the comments from TruTrak. 

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TT is a part of larger company the resources will be put to use with approvals and addressing the growing pains of an innovative company.


Do you know or we can hope they comment. Will they be running independently as TT going forward or will they be doing business as BK asap?

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3 hours ago, NJMac said:


 

 


Do you know or we can hope they comment. Will they be running independently as TT going forward or will they be doing business as BK asap?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

 

I really don’t know,  that is a question for them.

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Having been on several sides of the acquiring-a-company and getting-acquired-by-another-company and divesting-a-company and working-close-with-a-company-in-transition plays, there may be a quiet period while the acquisition happens and Honeywell sorts out what's going on and what they really have and what they can really do or not do with it.   I wouldn't expect to hear anything for a while, and even if you do, it might change.

Unfortunately, it is very common for small companies to get significantly pivoted in task or mismanaged to death after an acquisition.   I have personally worked with and first-hand witnessed company founders that were excited by their acquisition and looking forward to take their baby to the next level as part of a big company have their souls crushed by the reality that ensued.   That played out fairly regularly at a former large employer of mine.  There is often a minimum requirement of time that the principals have to stay in order to make the transition happen specified in the acquisition contract agreement, and I've seen things go so badly that both sides agreed to waive that part of the agreement so that the principals could get the hell away from the nightmare and the new company could proceed unhindered with whatever new direction they wanted to execute.   It is often a strange thing to watch, since the employees are all affected, often in different ways, too.

There are also the occasional success stories, and everything in between.

Anyway, if history is any guide, it will take a while for the dust to settle, and until that happens there's not much to do but be patient.   For those who have already run out a lot of their patience in this particular area, it might be time to just reassess options.

Just my dos centavos.   I always found this area of business, especially for tech businesses, interesting.   I watched, first hand from inside, multiple large (>$1B) acquisitions get ground to dust, my favorite being a key strategic $1.6B acquisition get turned into a $40M company in the space of a year.   This was for a key component of cellular telephones a few years before the iPhone came out, and that mismanagement killed a giant opportunity that was ripe for the taking.   The vision was there, but the execution was a face plant.

So, could be good, could be bad, in my experience the likelihood for bad is higher.

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Suppose you are TruTrak, you have this great product, and there is tremendous demand, that you may not be able to keep up with.  Along comes Honeywell BendixKing and says "We think you have a great product.  As a large enterprise, we can solve your capitalization/production problems if you let us acquire your company.  In addition to the pile of cash we will push to your side of the table, you can rest assured that your autopilot will be manufactured and marketed in ways you would not be able to, and everyone who wants one will be able to get one in a timely manner".  That is an appealing sales pitch, and TruTrak may have decided to be acquired with the best intentions in mind.  

I agree that, at a minimum, the STC timeline is likely to go out the window, as will production schedules.  

The cynic in me can't help but think back to when Garmin acquired the UPSAT CNX80 navigator.  The UPSAT box was WAAS at a time when Garmin did not have one, and was, in the opinion of many, a much better navigator than the 430/530 series .  Garmin effectively eliminated the competition by acquiring the CNX80.  Unfortunately Garmin dropped the CNX80 (renamed GNS480) from production after they had WAAS upgrades for the 430/530 boxes and had the current batch of WAAS navigators in design.  I hope that elimination of the competition is not the reason BK acquired TruTrak, and we will soon have AeroCruz 100 autopilots in our panels.  Like many of the people posting here, I have been hand-flying for over a year waiting for a cost-effective digital autopilot.

 

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18 hours ago, David_H said:

BK/ Honeywell will help bring this product to market sooner?

It's business and everyone gets it. However, what was good for him and his family may not be very good for the AP market. Hopefully he was paid handsomely and his family benefits greatly.

The problem is that they have too many orders and too high of a market potential to hire and train a workforce?

Can someone at TT quantify what "on time" means? Their "projected" timeline has succeeded in confusing everyone.

 

 

Can or will someone actually from TT respond to the question above They have the ability to say something here. I want to hear directly from them that the Mooney paperwork has in fact been submitted

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