Removing rear seat backs, 1969 M20F

[chrixxer]

The owner's manual says the reclining split rear seat backs in the M20F can be removed: "The rear seat backs can be removed for additional cargo space by pulling the spring-loaded lock pins at the seat back base and sliding the seat back rearward."

 

I'm having a devil of a time figuring out how to do it. (Exacerbated by the previous owner putting in a very nice interior that makes the seats just *that* much thicker...) Anyone know of a good tutorial? Trying to make room for a large soft crate for a rescue dog flight tomorrow...

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. I tried searching here but the number of hits for Js, modifying rear bench seats, etc, is overwhelming and I couldn't find anything specific to this plane that was helpful.

 

 

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[chrixxer]

Disregard, I got it figured out, I'll post a write-up soon.



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[N201MKTurbo]

I’ve had two Mooneys with two different seat backs. They were both a PITA to remove and install.

[chrixxer]

I’ve had two Mooneys with two different seat backs. They were both a PITA to remove and install.

TBH, almost makes me miss the '72 Arrow I rented. The rear seats popped out of that very easily. 135 ktas and 48 gallons usable, though...


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[Mooney-Mark]

How about removing the rear bench seat in a 1968 M20C? I am told that it is very difficult. Anyone have experience doing it?

[Yetti]

Ha ha the manual suckered you in.  The are easy to remove.   They are a huge PITA to put back in.   You have to hold the recline lever up, them move the seat in place with the center pin staying seated.    Then push down for the outboard spring pin to find the hole while making sure the seat belt does not fall off.

I have found that knees on the bottom seat to squish the foam down with an arm over the seat back for leverage then carefully guide to find the hole.   Way way more time than it should actually take for a simple operation.

 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Living the good life.  Lucky puppies.

[Jpflysdfw]

16 hours ago, chrixxer said:

Disregard, I got it figured out, I'll post a write-up soon.



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I can’t tell from the pooch pic...is it removed or just folded down?  I’m in the Mooney search and want to be able to do the same, so looking for similar. Also, is they standard or an option?  I will potentially Need to be able to transport a crate. Curious how much of a pita it is?? 

[chrixxer]

22 minutes ago, Jpflysdfw said:

I can’t tell from the pooch pic...is it removed or just folded down?  I’m in the Mooney search and want to be able to do the same, so looking for similar. Also, is they standard or an option?  I will potentially Need to be able to transport a crate. Curious how much of a pita it is?? 

The pooch pic was of the P28R-200 I used to rent; both back seats were removed completely.

As far as I know, most Mooney rear seats are not removable (I think that changed with later J models?); I was kind of surprised the '69 F had removable seat backs. (Fully removable, not just folded down.) I believe it was standard equipment for at least the '67 through '69 F models (at least, the '67 and '69 Fs I've flown have both had split reclining rear seat backs), as the manual didn't mention it being optional equipment.

Here's the write-up I promised on removing them:
Seat Back Removal, 1969 Mooney M20F

Reinstallation will be a while. Going to enjoy the summer with the pups, and also, get the left seat recline lever fixed! (Can probably do that myself - don't think an A&P is required for that? haven’t researched - but may just have an interior shop do it.)

Also contemplating moving to the “Spatial Interior” (this F is a little more crowded, vis-a-vis my shoulders, than my old E), but if I do that, I kinda want to swap the rear windows for the J-style one piece, and ...

Wasn’t this supposed to be a turn-key airplane?! (It was! It was ... But, you know, possibilities, upgrades ...)

[Jpflysdfw]

@chrixxer Thanks. I’m confused about the shoulder width reference. Are you saying that the E was/is wider than an F?  If so, how does Spatual Interiors help with that? (Sorry for a newbie question)

[chrixxer]

Just now, Jpflysdfw said:

@chrixxer Thanks. I’m confused about the shoulder width reference. Are you saying that the E was/is wider than an F?  If so, how does Spatual Interiors help with that? (Sorry for a newbie question)

They should, in theory, be the same width internally. I don't know what all might have changed vis-a-vis interior plastics, etc., though. The fuselage is the same width. My "E" had original 1966 interior plastics (complete with wood grain stickers and chrome ash trays), and the seats had been recovered in the 90s but were, as far as I know, otherwise completely original (foam, etc). I definitely sat lower in the E, my legs were straight out in front of me like in my Porsche.

The F has a fresh, new interior with increased sound insulation material added, and the seats were redone significantly; I sit up a little higher, more like my BMW E46 M3. It's somewhere between an Arrow and the more original vintage Mooneys I've flown (1962 B, 1963 C, 1966 E). My left shoulder seems to have just a smidge "not enough room," though I only really notice it when I first get in. I weight the same as when I had the E, so I don't think it's 'cause I've gotten fat(ter). I'm the same height (I'm "all torso" and 6'2", my inseam is 32"). The "spatial interior" is supposedly more interior space efficient, but that's a marketing claim I haven't verified.

Old vs. new:

 

 

[DonMuncy]

It appears to me that the Spatial Interiors' panels inset back between some of the airframe tubes, eking out a little extra room. 

[Jpflysdfw]

23 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

It appears to me that the Spatial Interiors' panels inset back between some of the airframe tubes, eking out a little extra room. 

Ahh, did not know that, makes sense and  helpful to know. Thanks Don. 

[Jpflysdfw]

@chrixxer Thanks for the clarification. I recently posted a question asking about the differences, pros/cons etc between an E and an F. I received some fantastic feedback from several knowledgeable folks willing to share heir thoughts. Given that  you have owned and flown both, I’m curious about your perspective. Other than 12 gals and 10”, in your mind is there any significant benefits from one over the other? (Flying/handling characteristics, in flight stability, etc) Of the two, which is your favorite and why?  Jeff

[Yetti]

My 75 F has the split reclining rear seats that are removeable.   There are some of the most comfortable seats on the planet for my tall frame.   We also found that the 1973+ F was a little longer and maybe a little wider than prior Fs

[chrixxer]

@chrixxer Thanks for the clarification. I recently posted a question asking about the differences, pros/cons etc between an E and an F. I received some fantastic feedback from several knowledgeable folks willing to share heir thoughts. Given that  you have owned and flown both, I’m curious about your perspective. Other than 12 gals and 10”, in your mind is there any significant benefits from one over the other? (Flying/handling characteristics, in flight stability, etc) Of the two, which is your favorite and why?  Jeff

Psychologically, I miss the speed of my E (a good 3-5 knots TAS faster than my '69 F; I've heard the '67s were faster). The F has a bunch of 201 mods including the windshield. The E also felt more nimble, like it really just wanted to fly. Drawing a car comparison, the E was a Porsche 997 GT3; zoomy, less practical.

The F is more like an E46 M3. Bigger. Heavier. More stable. More practical. Longer range. Greater useful load. Usable back seat. Doesn't leap off the runway like the E (though even with the scimitar prop, I'm off the ground by the 1000' markers at most elevations unless I'm full fuel and fill up with pax and luggage).

The F is definitely the more grown up choice. Between the two, I'd buy another F in a heartbeat, though I think I'd really be happiest (wallet permitting) in a J. Or, you know, an Acclaim Ultra with AC and FIKI.

But my missions frequently involve more than 1 passenger (more often than I'd expected, when I got the E; before that, I'd been renting, and that really skewed my mission profile), or bringing my two full-sized pups along. They squeezed into the E; with the seat backs out I can put down a big dog bed and they'll be comfy in the F.

This is all really high level stuff, if you want specifics I'm happy to elaborate. The E was a great plane (well, mine had the potential to be great - it was a bit of a salvage Frankenstein with "good enough for now" paint/interior/avionics (once I gutted the panel and put in an SL30 / MD-200-306 and repaired the GX55 and...)) and I'd buy another over any other plane - except a mid-body Mooney.


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[redcatcher27]

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:38 PM, chrixxer said:

The pooch pic was of the P28R-200 I used to rent; both back seats were removed completely.

As far as I know, most Mooney rear seats are not removable (I think that changed with later J models?); I was kind of surprised the '69 F had removable seat backs. (Fully removable, not just folded down.) I believe it was standard equipment for at least the '67 through '69 F models (at least, the '67 and '69 Fs I've flown have both had split reclining rear seat backs), as the manual didn't mention it being optional equipment.

Here's the write-up I promised on removing them:
Seat Back Removal, 1969 Mooney M20F

Reinstallation will be a while. Going to enjoy the summer with the pups, and also, get the left seat recline lever fixed! (Can probably do that myself - don't think an A&P is required for that? haven’t researched - but may just have an interior shop do it.)

Also contemplating moving to the “Spatial Interior” (this F is a little more crowded, vis-a-vis my shoulders, than my old E), but if I do that, I kinda want to swap the rear windows for the J-style one piece, and ...

Wasn’t this supposed to be a turn-key airplane?! (It was! It was ... But, you know, possibilities, upgrades ...)

Thanks so much Chrixxer for the excellent seat back removal instructions!

'Just one more example of why THIS forum is so invaluable.

And I look forward to seeing the "Getting the Recline Lever Connected Properly" instuctions. (I desperately need those for a "friend". )

[pilot_jb]

I just had mine out for the first time. My best advice is DONT DO IT!  Lol!  They’re an amazing PITA to get out and then back in. 

[N201MKTurbo]

50 minutes ago, pilot_jb said:

I just had mine out for the first time. My best advice is DONT DO IT!  Lol!  They’re an amazing PITA to get out and then back in. 

When I think about the seats the phrase "Blood Sweat and Tears" comes to mind...

Or is that "Blood Sweat and $#@*&"

Edited October 28, 2018 by N201MKTurbo

[Hank]

24 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

When I think about the seats the phrase "Blood Sweat and Tears" comes to mind...

Or is that "Blood Sweat and $#@*&"

When I removed and put back the seats in my C, it was some of all of those!

[Gary0747]

How much do the Spatial interiors cost? I do not see it on their website. 

[hmasing]

20 minutes ago, Gary0747 said:

How much do the Spatial interiors cost? I do not see it on their website. 

About $2500 if memory serves - plus your labor time.

[Marauder]

How much do the Spatial interiors cost? I do not see it on their website. 

About $2500 if memory serves - plus your labor time.

The panels are only one part of the cost. All in, you could look to pay between $5000 and $7000 depending on your arrangement with Bruce. I paid for Bruce’s airfare to my area, provided lodging and meals for his stay. This does not include the cost of the seats and rugs.

There are incidental expenses like paints, materials (cloth to cover panels, his pockets, repair backing aluminum, fillers and trim) and his actual labor to help you with the installation.


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