Tough Avionics and Plane Marketing Decision

[MBDiagMan]

This is a long story folks, so bear with me.

I have a WONDERFUL C model that I thought I would be flying as long as I can continue to get a medical. When I got it, the panel consisted of:

430W with CDI

KT76 Transponder

KX155 LOC/GS

King DME

Marker Beacon

The plane is 100% corrosion free, new paint, 250 hour SNEW engine and prop when I bought her, about 400 hours now.  Tanks recently resealed by Dugosh.  The plane has been hangared at Kerrville and taken care of by Dugosh for decades, before I bought her a year and a half ago.

I took her to the Avionics shop for a GTX345 about two months ago.  While she was there I tripped on the brick steps leading up from the pool and hurt my right shoulder breaking the fall.  Turns out there is a benign growth in my shoulder and surgery is imminent.  This means the Johnson  Bar is out for me for a long time.  I have thought about moving to a long body, but would not have given her up for a long body had this shoulder problem not entered the equation.

SO......  I am buying a beautiful electric gear F from Don Maxwell that he has been going through.  The plane appears to be of the same quality as my C.  The panel has a 430 non WAAS and a Garmin 337(non ADS-B.)  In the deal, Don agreed to swap the 430W, GTX345 and Card Compass from my C into the F (I think of it as a J since it has 201 cowl and windshield as well as back glass,) and I will take the C there for the swap.  I am only about twenty Mooney minutes from Maxwells.

Here is where I am asking for opinions and help in thinking this through:  the 430W and the card compass are going into the F for sure.  The GTX345 is where my dilemma lies.  I spent a small fortune to get it into the C and it is fabulous.  If I move it to the F and put the 327 in the C how much difference will this make in the marketability and price while I am selling the C?  

The attached photo is the F panel.

Thanks in advance for your opinions, comments nd advice.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by MBDiagMan

[Jerry 5TJ]

If you leave the GTX345 in the C you can sell it as ADS-B out (and in) compliant.  

That may not add a lot to the price but it may make it a lot easier to sell.   

The GTX327 is going to be seen as a liability by potential buyers. 

 

[KSMooniac]

I'd be inclined to leave the 345 in the C for value and ease-of-sale concerns. It doesn't make sense to me to pay to remove a desirable piece of equipment and pay (or horse-trade) to install in another plane. I'd just plan to put a new 345 in the F and sell the C as-is. For the same reason I'd leave the WAAS antenna in the C and install a new one in the F.

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[larryb]

It sounds like Don will move the gear as part of the deal with no or little cost to you? I’d do it. Move all of it. Buyers are cheap and don’t want to pay for anything. If you had to pay hourly shop rates to move it I probably would not.

[Cruiser]

Is the GTX 345 connected to your GNS 430W for GPS position source? If so, the GTX 345 will NOT be ADS-B compliant without the 430W.

[kortopates]

Is the GTX 345 connected to your GNS 430W for GPS position source? If so, the GTX 345 will NOT be ADS-B compliant without the 430W.

Exactly, the 345 isn't functional without the WAAS so I'd move it with the GNS430W.
I wouldn't be too worried about resale value of the C. You'll save more money by not having to re-purchase and re-install your avioincs.


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[KSMooniac]

Whether or not he's explicitly paying for avionics labor, it is part of the deal and thus costing something. He's paying to remove and re-install, plus do a fresh install of the 327 transponder since the rack/connectors are different than the 345. If it were me, I'd let the 345 stay in the C and work a deal for another one for the F.

The required WAAS input was a detail I hadn't thought of...I'd still do what I propose and let the next owner of the C do a W upgrade or replacement to feed the 345. The plane is still more marketable with the 345, and I bet the difference in what is "lost " leaving it with the C is close to a wash compared to the cost of 2 additional xponder installations.

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[jetdriven]

I’m not so sure that JPI 900 install is legal... it’s too far from the  pilots field of vision without the repeater and alarm light. 

 

With regard to the GTX 345,the STC requires a position input and if you don’t have that from 430W, then the transponder itself isn’t a conforming  installation.. I’m not really sure how to rectify that other than buying a 430Wfor the C model as well. But now you’re down the hole for eight or 10 grand more instead of three...

Edited July 6, 2018 by jetdriven

[gsxrpilot]

Here's my $0.02. I'd not swap anything out of the C. They way it sits, you've got a very valuable C and it should fetch a nice price. A C with WAAS and ADSB is rare and therefore desirable.

Make a deal with Chase at AvionicsSource to swap your non-Waas 430 for an IFD440. There will be some cash involved but you can also get an ADSB transponder in the deal as well.

You'll get top dollar for your C and you'll have a new and modern GPS in the F.

[MBDiagMan]

Great information coming from this thread!

jetdiven, Don pointed out the alarm light and such.  It is to the right of the gear lights.  He said that the JPI installation was not legal unless that light is on center or left of center, or words something to that effect.

Edited July 6, 2018 by MBDiagMan

[carusoam]

Sell as is...

Move on...

Too complex to try and optimize all the details.

Too costly to remove and reinstall things.  The install costs add up over and over again....

Optimizing details and ending up with a 430w in the new plane, isn’t very optimal...  it works, just not optimal...

Is this a forevever plane?

A C with a waas GPS and JPI is somebody’s idea of a forever-plane...

Find that somebody... show him the specs...

PP thoughts only, not a sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[KSMooniac]

While we're spending your money, you might ask Don about an electric gear conversion on the C...

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[gsxrpilot]

3 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

While we're spending your money, you might ask Don about an electric gear conversion on the C...

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What?? And ruin a perfectly good C? 

[KSMooniac]

Yeah, it is blasphemy to a certain extent, but if it meant keeping my forever plane I'll consider it.

What?? And ruin a perfectly good C? 

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[MBDiagMan]

Yes, I did ask about the conversion.  He said probably about $20K, possibly a little less.

[Marauder]

Great information coming from this thread!
jetdiven, Don pointed out the alarm light and such.  It is to the right of the gear lights.  He said that the JPI installation was not legal unless that light is on center or left of center, or words something to that effect.

I think the JPI field of view cannot be further than 16” from your line of sight. If it is, you are supposed to have the JPI remote indicator installed in that field of view.

As for the 345. If you purchased the 345 with the WAAS GPS built in, you can pull the 430W. If not, then it would make sense to pull it and install it in the F. Unfortunately you will be left with a bare bones C that may be harder to sell.


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[MBDiagMan]

6 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

What?? And ruin a perfectly good C? 

That is my thinking too.  I don’t think I am alone in having love for the Johnson Bar.  When I was looking for a C, if it didn’t have manual gear, I wasn’t interested.  I think it would be a downgrade when it comes time to sell.  I did not foresee my shoulder problem.  As it turned out, that is the wildcard.

Edited July 6, 2018 by MBDiagMan

[Marauder]

That JPI indicator should have come with your JPI. Should look like this (upper left corner of this picture).




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[gsxrpilot]

3 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

That is my thinking too.  I don’t think I am alone in having love for the Johnson Bar.  When I was looking for a C, if it didn’t have manual gear, I wasn’t interested.  I think it would be a downgrade when it comes time to sell.

You're doing the right thing moving to an F to get the electric gear. $25K spent on an M20C for gear would be a terrible investment as it might lower the value of the C. You should get some good interest in that C.

[gsxrpilot]

3 minutes ago, Marauder said:

That JPI indicator should have come with your JPI. Should look like this (upper left corner of this picture).

Or this way and you don't need the blinky light. 

[MBDiagMan]

Yes Marauder that engine light is installed just to the right of the gear lights.

I do realize that the position of the JPI will make me happy to have my trifocals.

The group on this forum never fails to impress me.  Collectively you guys are a virtual aviation encyclopedia, not to mention a friendly, encouraging and supporting group.

I have a few days to make this decision.  I have a doctors appointment tomorrow, and Tuesday, wedding to attend Saturday, and bad weather for several days.  It’s about 45nm to Dons place, so I will fly my C over there next week for whatever gear swap I decide to do.  I will have to fly it gear down, but even at 120MPH, it should be less than a half hour in the air.

Thanks again!  I still haven’t decided, so please keep those ideas and information coming.

[KSMooniac]

I agree 25 AMU for the conversion makes no sense. I imagine it could be done for less with some patient scrounging of parts, but I wouldn't want to do it if I are in your shoes. Don's price probably has new parts...or he just doesn't want to ruin a great C model either and that is his crazy price.

How much is your copay for a new shoulder? That might be less painful than trading planes?

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[Marauder]

Or this way and you don't need the blinky light. 

Technically, I don’t need to have it installed either. But I’m a suspenders and belt kind of guy

[MBDiagMan]

Yes, I found the electric conversion parts available from a salvage plane.  It would have meant 12 hours or so driving one way to remove it with a bad shoulder and something less than a weeks work to put it in.  Parts were $4500.  I may had that much more in it with my local shop doing much of it.  Still that all would result in a downgrade of the plane IMHO.

[Oldguy]

My suggestion is to price out the sale of your C as is, the sale price of your C with the 430 non-WAAS and 337, the cost of the F adding the IFD 440 and transponder of your choice, and the cost of the F swapping out the 430 and 345. As folks have said earlier, your C as-is will likely sell quickly for a premium price. 

Getting figures down on paper will help, because at some point, it comes down to the Benjamins.