gsxrpilot Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, jetdriven said: If you really need it, raise the flaps at touchdown. It quickly puts a lot of weight on the tires for braking. Yep, my SOP is to raise the flaps at touchdown and before brakes every time. I'm glad that unlike a Bo, the flap switch and gear switch are not next to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0TreeLemur Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 That's why I'm loving the Johnson bar. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 6 hours ago, Fred_2O said: That's why I'm loving the Johnson bar. If I could have one thing from my M20C on my 252... it would be that manual gear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) You’re making me feel bad Paul. I hate giving up my Johnson Bar landing gear, but I hate giving up a Mooney even more. With the shoulder unable to handle the gear any more I guess I could go to a 182 or 210......, nah. To the meat of the thread though, my new to me bird has speed brakes and I am looking forward to learning how to take advantage of them. Edited July 8, 2018 by MBDiagMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 On 7/4/2018 at 1:18 PM, Rmag said: What makes slips not available? RMag, The Long Body runs into an interference problem with the spacing of the flaps and distance to the tail... under full flaps, a cross controlled long body can cause a ‘shadow’ on the tail... leading to a tail stall... A tail stall on final approach is a pretty undesirable condition.... So speed brakes were supplied for all long bodies... and crossed controls have been de-emphasized or eliminated from low altitude use. one of the important topics for a new owner going through TT... This is an aged memory of only a PP, not a CFI. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 So is cross controlling a problem with an F or J? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 Great! I slip the heck out of my C and about to move to an F. I sure would hate to be without forward slips in my arsenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 No. Slips are just an issue with Ks and up, according to the gurus. Flaps reportedly aggravate the condition. J’s and below are fine. Jim I thought K and J has same body, K slightly longer nose. So I would expect them to have the same characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 Great information blue! I guess I need to try to be a Mooney flyer instead of slipping it like a taildragger. Great articles. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskytango Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 When I am on an IFR flight plan but wx is good VFR, ATC in the area of my home 'drome likes to keep me around 8,000' AGL until about 5 NM from the airport! They then clear me to 2,000' AGL and then clear me for a visual approach. Having speed brakes makes it possible to land without a bunch of vectors to bleed off altitude and not run up against Vne. The engineer in me finds it annoying to convert all that potential energy to frictional heating, but I am still happy to be able to get the gear down and land without a lot of vectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 2 hours ago, MBDiagMan said: Great! I slip the heck out of my C and about to move to an F. I sure would hate to be without forward slips in my arsenal. You won't need to slip any more, you've got speed brakes. Speed brakes can be used any time at any speed and in any configuration. I sometimes pop them out, then put them away, then pop them back out again, all on the same final approach. If you need them or you think they might benefit the upcoming landing, use them. Back on the subject of slips. I slip my K occasionally, but never with the flaps out. I'll use the slip to get down if I need to, then get straightened out and extend the flaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 MBD, Which rudder did you have? 65 C and older all got the short rudder... B models got a shorter rudder throw... to go with the short rudder... Staying high and slipping to lose energy was part of expecting the engine to always die... (90s training technique...) The Short rudder on the C was easy to balance with the ailerons... Be wise when adding the rudder controls all in and all out... smoothly and slowly put them in, and let them out... having your foot slip off the pedal can set up a giant wag of the tail.... wagging the whole plane is a set-up for a stall when flying close to stall speed.... Always keep the Nose pointed down while dumping large amounts of energy... (another tactic of avoiding stalls, by lowering the AOA) PP thoughts only, not a CFI... best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Zuffoletto Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 I had speed brakes on both of my turbo Mooneys. They came in handy when ATC gave me ridiculous crossing altiitudes in short distances, but other than that I didn’t use them much. But they are nice to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 6:45 PM, carusoam said: MBD, Which rudder did you have? 65 C and older all got the short rudder... B models got a shorter rudder throw... to go with the short rudder... Staying high and slipping to lose energy was part of expecting the engine to always die... (90s training technique...) The Short rudder on the C was easy to balance with the ailerons... Be wise when adding the rudder controls all in and all out... smoothly and slowly put them in, and let them out... having your foot slip off the pedal can set up a giant wag of the tail.... wagging the whole plane is a set-up for a stall when flying close to stall speed.... Always keep the Nose pointed down while dumping large amounts of energy... (another tactic of avoiding stalls, by lowering the AOA) PP thoughts only, not a CFI... best regards, -a- VERY GOOD LESSON carusaoam! My C did (does) have the short rudder. From your lesson my take away is; I’m glad my new to me F has speed brakes. Thanks for taking the time to post this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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