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It might be overhaul time...


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Doing some other maintenance this morning and discovered this. Pulled the rest and there are 3 this bad or worse and 3 more with much smaller chips. I need a new cam and maybe an overhaul. I bought the plane in October and while the previous owner wasn’t flying it a lot at that point, it was still being flown. The engine is 1200 SNEW (2000 Ovation 2). This was not the plan when I got up this morning that’s for sure. 

Has anyone here used Aero Engines in Winchester VA? I’ve found a few positive reviews online and they are recommended by my IA. Considering having them overhaul it and just be done with any major engine maintenance hopefully for a long time.

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Sorry about your bad day.

Western Skyways overhauled the  IO550 for my Ovation. The old engine kept the candles burning for 2250 hours before things got a bit shakey.

Happy with their work, no squawks.

One thing to keep in mind with the basic overhaul cost are the additional sugar wafers I had not considered.

1. New wiring harness, a must.

2. You really need those new engine mounts.

3. That aged exhaust system, got to be replaced now.

4. Fine wire plugs, don't leave home without them.

5. Engine removal and replace, mas dinero.

6. Freight in and out, my error, Western Skyways pays both ways.

And so it goes.

Golf carts, Mooneys and high maintenance women, where would we be without them??

Best,

 

 

 

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Well the Facebook thread didn’t really quickly to people calling me a kook because I recommended pulling lifters and inspecting them at pre-buy it which is not hard to do on these things but it seems the other mechanics on the thread  thought it was invasive and unnecessary. But they’re not the ones having to buy a $40,000 engine  right now either

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1 hour ago, rpcc said:

Well that sucks!  This is a good thread on the subject.  How many hours did you put on it since purchase and where was the planes home base for the previous owner?

 

 

I've put about 50-60 hours on it since I got it.  The previous owner was in southern Ohio.  I never actually met him.  Bought it via San Antonio.  I don't think it was in San Antonio more than a couple months though.

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17 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Well the Facebook thread didn’t really quickly to people calling me a kook because I recommended pulling lifters and inspecting them at pre-buy it which is not hard to do on these things but it seems the other mechanics on the thread  thought it was invasive and unnecessary. But they’re not the ones having to buy a $40,000 engine  right now either

Can you do this on a 520 series as well?  Looking at a B brand now that's been sitting for a while.

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16 minutes ago, rpcc said:

Can you do this on a 520 series as well?  Looking at a B brand now that's been sitting for a while.

The only TCM engine that you can’t pull the lifters that I know of are A65 thru O-300.  360,470,520 &550 are all easily done.  It’s as easy as pulling a cylinder on a Lycoming, and just as necessary.

Clarence

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1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

The only TCM engine that you can’t pull the lifters that I know of are A65 thru O-300.  360,470,520 &550 are all easily done.  It’s as easy as pulling a cylinder on a Lycoming, and just as necessary.

Clarence

Thanks Clarence !

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4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The only TCM engine that you can’t pull the lifters that I know of are A65 thru O-300.  360,470,520 &550 are all easily done.  It’s as easy as pulling a cylinder on a Lycoming, and just as necessary.

Clarence

Off-topic, but can you pull the lifters in Lycomings with roller tappets easily?

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1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

Not possible. And idk why you would really want to. The rollers are tool steel and they don’t spall, they roll. 

I was wondering whether it would be reasonable for prebuy inspections.  The shape looks like they might be removable like the continental lifters, but I've not found anything that says they can or can't be for sure

Image result for lycoming roller tappets

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They are not removable.  There’s an oval shape machined Into the case and the lifters are installed from the inside. That flat spot goes agains the side of the lifter  bore so it wont rotate.  But it can’t be removed either. I think it’s totally stupid but that’s the way they did it. 

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10 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

They are not removable.  There’s an oval shape machined Into the case and the lifters are installed from the inside. That flat spot goes agains the side of the lifter  bore so it wont rotate.  But it can’t be removed either. I think it’s totally stupid but that’s the way they did it. 

Thanks, I was wondering about that...

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I claim zero expertise, but my brother loved his Winchester-done Continental IO 550 in his C182. It is still running perfectly with good compressions at 2000 hours, but says there’s a gummint mandatory, though unnecessary overhaul. He has scheduled his next one there for this summer. Said they were prompt, did beautiful work, and he expects the next one will last him the rest of his career.

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Great to hear.  I was there today and had a good impression.  The cam is, as expected, damaged.  And some of the cylinders are showing their age.  The crank and connecting rods are in great shape.  With only 1200 hours on it, its really in the grey area between doing the cam repair and cylinders vs the whole thing.  You could probably flip a coin on it.  Their are reasons to convince yourself both ways.

I told them to go ahead with the overhaul.  Its off the plane and the repair is basically half way to an overhaul anyway.  Fingers crossed this means we are done with major projects for a while.

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Does it make sense to overhaul an IO-360-A3B6D engine?

Lycoming offers the following warranty for an IO-360-A3B6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

The quotes I have seen for an overhaul of the A3B6D are around 30K.
A rebuilt A3B6 is about 35.5K.  All American’s valuation tool says the A3B6 adds about 4K to the plane’s value.

It takes about a week to remove the old engine and install a rebuilt A3B6.
It will probably take six weeks to overhaul the A3B6D and another week for installation. Shipping costs can be substantial.

When it comes to sales taxes, location matters. Oklahoma has no sales tax on parts or labor.

.

 

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The reason people want to see the cam and lifters in an IO360 is there is a history of people getting an engine that has sat...

The resulting corrosion destroys the lifter’s surface and the cam hardened surface... together they destroy the cam’s lobes...

 

If there isn’t a history of a roller cam doing the same thing... what would drive the decision to take one out for inspection?

Shouldn’t the roller cams be showing corrosion issues by now? Have they been in service long enough, by enough unpredictable owners...to have enough experience to know?

Best regards,

-a-

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Clarence,

That's true and turbines engines are about 50 times more reliable than piston engines, but if you have an A3B6D, does it make more sense to overhaul the A3B6D

or get a rebuilt A3B6?  According to Air Power, Engines, most owners are choosing the A3B6.

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