steingar Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just got my M20c back from annual. I’ve been using Bobby Norman at 42I, the airport where I had my prop strike. I’m still mad at myself, that should have never happened. So, the airplane got its annual inspection and an oil and filter change. It got new gear doughnuts and a new part from Mooney for the front gear. Got my step fixed too, now I can crank it without calling on Mr. Atlas. What did your annual cost? I’ll spill the beans on mine if and when I get a few replies and/or guesses. By the way, this year I just left it without turning a screw or taking apart anything. Not how I like to do it but how it had to go this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 I think i’m On my 18th annual or so.... a few amu last time through... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 Annuals on my C have ranged from less than an AMU (partners are great!) to over six . . . My last pilot static check was 2+ . . . While the last one was ~$300. Too much variability to have a single meaningful number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 Probably not much help, but mine are just the cost of parts. I do my own inspections. 2 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just completed the annual on my M20J last weekend. $1083, owner-assisted. Only a couple small squawks, both of which we fixed during the annual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted June 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Mine wound up about $1524. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLev Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, steingar said: Mine winded about $1524. That seems really cheap if you had new gear biscuits put in. Did you supply the parts? My annual this past year was $2400 (first annual) and I didn't really have any significant squawks. They replaced instrument filters, inspected nose gear, tightened gear clamp on steering linkage, removed a birds nest, cleared manifold pressure line, sprayed corrosion x, charged me some labor for repacking the bearings, checking caliper, etc and changed a brake line. Pretty much it. They billed me 3.5 hours for checking ADs so that added to the cost. Edited June 17, 2018 by AlexLev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, AlexLev said: They replaced instrument filters, inspected nose gear, tightened gear clamp on steering linkage, removed a birds nest, cleared manifold pressure line, sprayed corrosion x, charged me some labor for repacking the bearings, checking caliper, etc and changed a brake line. Pretty much it. They billed me 3.5 hours for checking ADs so that added to the cost. Wow, repacking wheel bearings is part of the base charge for my annuals . . . . . Bird's nests, Corrosion X, etc., would be extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 6 hours ago, steingar said: Just got my M20c back from annual. I’ve been using Bobby Norman at 42I, the airport where I had my prop strike. I’m still mad at myself, that should have never happened. So, the airplane got its annual inspection and an oil and filter change. It got new gear doughnuts and a new part from Mooney for the front gear. Got my step fixed too, now I can crank it without calling on Mr. Atlas. What did your annual cost? I’ll spill the beans on mine if and when I get a few replies and/or guesses. By the way, this year I just left it without turning a screw or taking apart anything. Not how I like to do it but how it had to go this time. @steingar ISTM you should segregate maintenance cost, such as the gear donuts and the step repair, from the cost of the annual inspection. I suppose many shops have a fixed rate for the inspection, @AGL Aviationdoes and posts them on the website. Deferring maintenance, upgrades, tank patching, etc., etc. until the plane is in the shop for annual does not make those costs part of the 100 hour/annual inspection. Surely your shop itemized the parts and labor for the non-annual charges. We've had folks tell us about a $15 or $20,000 annual only to find out that the prop had to be overhauled, the exhaust system was shot, they had to replace 2 cylinders, and they had the gear painted! I never know whether they're bragging or complaining! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6018Q Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said: @steingar I never know whether they're bragging or complaining! I spent $2k just on labor on my first annual, not to mention $1.3k on mag overhauls. Total for parts and labor was ~$5k. Flew 6 hours, engine started running rough. Second mechanic pulled the mags and 1 case was cracked. Believe me when I tell you I’m not bragging! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said: We've had folks tell us about a $15 or $20,000 annual only to find out that the prop had to be overhauled, the exhaust system was shot, they had to replace 2 cylinders, and they had the gear painted! I never know whether they're bragging or complaining! I agree, its a lot like asking about TAS, we end up with screen shots of their GS and if the photo is wide enough they are usually descending slightly My IA charges 25 hrs labor for the inspection, you cant really compare the cost of an annuals, you can compare hrs charged but not the dollar amount. $1524 for an annual, oil change, gear pucks and misc is dirt cheap, the pucks alone are a grand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Yeah, I'm thinking $1524 is a good price for a drop off, pick up annual. The gear pucks at $1100 would have to be on top of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 You’d need to define the term “Annual” Is it a complete airplane inspection, does it use the manufactures checklist (Mooney is 2 pages long, Cirrus is almost 30 as is a Diamond) or some other list? Are AD’s S/B’s S/I’s included? A freelance maintainer at wage rate working with you in your hangar with no manuals, no insurance, no inventory and no tools against a full service shop will always have a lower charge. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 27 minutes ago, M20Doc said: Cirrus is almost 30 as is a Diamond) yea, they need it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, mike_elliott said: yea, they need it too. Mike, Not quite how I see it. In my experience many Mooney’s are undermaintained, by a combination of maintainers who don’t do, or don’t understand what is required and by owners who seek out these same maintainers. This is furthered by a less than detailed maintenance manual and inspection program. The same inspection sheets for an early 60’s Mooney are used for a turbocharged, de-iced Acclaim. Newer airframes have more detailed manuals and inspection sheets. Clarence Edited June 17, 2018 by M20Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGL Aviation Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I agree, its a lot like asking about TAS, we end up with screen shots of their GS and if the photo is wide enough they are usually descending slightly My IA charges 25 hrs labor for the inspection, you cant really compare the cost of an annuals, you can compare hrs charged but not the dollar amount. $1524 for an annual, oil change, gear pucks and misc is dirt cheap, the pucks alone are a grand We charge for 24hours. Most aircraft manufacturers have some sort of reference document outlining how long an annual should take. We always average on the low side. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGL Aviation Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I spent $2k just on labor on my first annual, not to mention $1.3k on mag overhauls. Total for parts and labor was ~$5k. Flew 6 hours, engine started running rough. Second mechanic pulled the mags and 1 case was cracked. Believe me when I tell you I’m not bragging! We just had a C come out of our shop: there was a significant amount of 'deferred maintenance' that had to be addressed. He upgraded his engine monitor, gear pucks, a few expensive landing gear bushings, down lock block... He purchased most of the parts himself to save our markup and I believe his total expense was around 6G to my knowledge. We've run across old invoices in other aircraft records and upon examination were flabbergasted how some were really taken advantage of. One example of that was a total of 80hrs to r&r an engine (on a J) - it usually takes 21-24 hours on a J that has primary engine monitors (JPI). Most shops are reasonable and fair, but there are some that are just unscrupulous.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGL Aviation Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I spent $2k just on labor on my first annual, not to mention $1.3k on mag overhauls. Total for parts and labor was ~$5k. Flew 6 hours, engine started running rough. Second mechanic pulled the mags and 1 case was cracked. Believe me when I tell you I’m not bragging! I am curious, you had just had the mags overhauled and within 6hours the case was cracked? Was it a Bendix/slick? I am also curious as to where the case was cracked - near the mounting flange? If someone installs a Bendix mag with a slick gasket or omit the 'special washer's required for installation, the case certainly can crack. So many things can be screwed up on an airplane by not having the proper information or technical data. They hide that information in books 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6018Q Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, AGL Aviation said: I am curious, you had just had the mags overhauled and within 6hours the case was cracked? Was it a Bendix/slick? I am also curious as to where the case was cracked - near the mounting flange? If someone installs a Bendix mag with a slick gasket or omit the 'special washer's required for installation, the case certainly can crack. So many things can be screwed up on an airplane by not having the proper information or technical data. I have Bendix (1200 series?) mags. There was a ~2-1/2" crack on the body, not in the immediate vicinity (relatively speaking) of the mounting flange. I'm not a metallurgist, but the crack sure didn't look recent to me. And thanks for the heads up on the installation washers, I'll make sure my new mechanic is aware of those. Edited June 17, 2018 by N6018Q left out info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 42 minutes ago, M20Doc said: <snip> Newer airframes have more detailed manuals and inspection sheets. Clarence I for one would be interested in an updated inspection check list for my vintage Mooney reflecting the more thorough checklist used for 21 century Mooneys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 51 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said: I for one would be interested in an updated inspection check list for my vintage Mooney reflecting the more thorough checklist used for 21 century Mooneys. I downloaded one from Mooney's website, 2 pages each two columns of small print. It's what I use; I can scan one when I get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hank said: I downloaded one from Mooney's website, 2 pages each two columns of small print. It's what I use; I can scan one when I get home. Thanks Hank, I probably have that. What I was looking for is the equivalent of Clarence's 30 pager for Cirrus or Diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francisg Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Basic annual at LASAR is $3500 plus parts provided there are no issues.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, francisg said: Basic annual at LASAR is $3500 plus parts provided there are no issues.... A little steep for me, wonder what the hourly rate is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmaster Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Me too! I for one would be interested in an updated inspection check list for my vintage Mooney reflecting the more thorough checklist used for 21 century Mooneys. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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