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The airplane crash this week in Burlington NJ, was on an angel flight mission, he was an experienced pilot completing 16 Angel flight missions alone with his copilot. Luckily they were enroute to pick up the patient. I don’t know what type of plane or any details yet. As Angel flight gets more details they will notify the AFE pilots with info, totally a shame. RIP

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All I could find so far: 

https://www.courierpostonline.com/story/news/2018/06/14/marlton-man-robert-winner-timothy-scannevin-fatal-burlington-county-nj-plane-crash-ntsb/701012002/ 

"Shortly after takeoff, there was an occurrence that caused the aircraft to crash, and that crash did take place on both sides of the road," New Jersey State Police said Wednesday. "There were a lot of trees in that area and there was some contact between the aircraft and the trees."

Witnesses described seeing smoke and shadows cross through a field and over the roadway before seeing the plane crash into a patch of woods.

Winner is the registered owner of the downed aircraft, according to federal databases.

The Beechcraft Baron took off from the Lumberton airport around 9:04 a.m., according to FlightAware, an aircraft tracking website.

That plane's flight path appears to have gone offline a few minutes into the flight near the area of the crash scene, according to FlightAware data.

The last recorded data point was a little after 9:07 a.m., just over three minutes after departure and just west of Smithville-Jacksonville Road. That plane descended from 1,300 feet to 400 feet in less than 90 seconds, with no further data points recorded.

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A bit of wind but no ceiling:

KVAY 141354Z AUTO 28007G18KT 10SM CLR 24/09 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP113 T02390089
KVAY 141254Z AUTO 29008KT 210V330 10SM CLR 23/09 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP114 T02280094

Edited by kortopates
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18 hours ago, Danb said:

 As Angel flight gets more details they will notify the AFE pilots with info, totally a shame. RIP

Probably not,,,the email I got from them had 5% of the info already on the internet....My guess is they want to forget about it......

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2 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

what makes you say that?  was this written somewhere?

I said "Looks". On twins most catastrophic crashes on takeoff are due to engine out. The asymmetrical thrust due to the operating engine and the low air speed causes a steep turn and dive resulting in a crash. An engine out could be caused by engine failure or blocked fuel supply.

José

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2 hours ago, Piloto said:

On twins most catastrophic crashes on takeoff are due to engine out. The asymmetrical thrust due to the operating engine and the low air speed causes a steep turn and dive resulting in a crash.

 Not commenting on this accident.

Asymmetrical thrust does not "cause" a steep turn and dive in a twin.  I am no expert but wouldn't an improperly loaded airplane for the density altitude or improper rudder and speed input be more likely to cause a turn.  I have had engine failures in real life and a guess of maybe 300 in the simulator.  Never once been in a steep turn/dive simply due to an engine failure.  

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31 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

 Not commenting on this accident.

Asymmetrical thrust does not "cause" a steep turn and dive.  I am no expert but wouldn't an improperly loaded airplane for the density altitude or improper rudder and speed input be more likely to cause a turn.  I have had engine failures in real life and a guess of maybe 300 in the simulator.  Never once been in a steep turn/dive simply due to an engine failure.  

I believe Jose was referring to the Vmc roll, which we in singles are never in danger of . . . .

When I first read about this accident elsewhere, there was no mention of Angel Flight. So sad.

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1 hour ago, Hank said:

I believe Jose was referring to the Vmc roll, which we in singles are never in danger of . . . .

When I first read about this accident elsewhere, there was no mention of Angel Flight. So sad.

In a twin you are never in danger of Vmc roll if properly loaded for the conditions and proper input of controls after the failure, especially at 1300 feet.  Do light twins need to be certified to fly on one engine at max gross weight after a failure?  NO,,,but if you treat them like the accidents that they are waiting to happen it should not get to the point where you roll over.....

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Witnesses said they saw the plane fly over a field before crashing into the trees. None of this sounds like a VMC problem.

If I were guessing, and I am. Maybe he had an engine failure and caged the wrong one.

Either way the NTSB is very good at figuring out these things.

Edited by N201MKTurbo
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Bob was a friend and a fellow Angel Flight pilot. We had flown together and he was a very capable pilot. He loved his Baron. We spoke on the phone Tuesday evening and he mentioned the flight and the wx he was monitoring. Wednesday morning VAY was LIFR ceilings around 400. I didn’t think he’d go but he went. If he had trouble and needed to get back in there was no way because there are no precision approaches. I heard today at the airport that both engines were running moments before the crash. Speculation is spatial disorientation and loss of control.

Tailwinds and clear skies Bob. 

This is the second friend based on my field who I have lost to a Baron crash. The first was Ron Lecates who crashed his Baron several years ago at MIV.

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19 minutes ago, PTK said:

Bob was a friend and a fellow Angel Flight pilot. We had flown together and he was a very capable pilot. He loved his Baron. We spoke on the phone Tuesday evening and he mentioned the flight and the wx he was monitoring. Wednesday morning VAY was LIFR ceilings around 400. I didn’t think he’d go but he went. If he had trouble and needed to get back in there was no way because there are no precision approaches. I heard today at the airport that both engines were running moments before the crash. Speculation is spatial disorientation and loss of control.

Tailwinds and clear skies Bob. 

This is the second friend based on my field who I have lost to a Baron crash. The first was Ron Lecates who crashed his Baron several years ago at MIV.

I’m very sort ptk.

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2 hours ago, Hank said:

I believe Jose was referring to the Vmc roll, which we in singles are never in danger of . . . .

When I first read about this accident elsewhere, there was no mention of Angel Flight. So sad.

to me it doesn't matter if its a dog flight, angel flight, mile high club flight, fun flight or commercial flight. It is very sad to hear any time one of us goes down.

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27 minutes ago, PTK said:

Bob was a friend and a fellow Angel Flight pilot. We had flown together and he was a very capable pilot. He loved his Baron. We spoke on the phone Tuesday evening and he mentioned the flight and the wx he was monitoring. Wednesday morning VAY was LIFR ceilings around 400. I didn’t think he’d go but he went. If he had trouble and needed to get back in there was no way because there are no precision approaches. I heard today at the airport that both engines were running moments before the crash. Speculation is spatial disorientation and loss of control.

Tailwinds and clear skies Bob. 

This is the second friend based on my field who I have lost to a Baron crash. The first was Ron Lecates who crashed his Baron several years ago at MIV.

So sorry for your loss Peter.

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10 minutes ago, Piloto said:

If memory serves, the pilot feathered the good engine in that case. If so, this is a poor example to use as an engine failure accident in a twin; it was "pilot error".

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11 minutes ago, Piloto said:

it would not have crashed if the pilots did not shut down the wrong engine.......the airline is out if business due to this accident.....The engine out did not cause this accident or the airplane to roll.  It was pilot error in handling an engine out that caused it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransAsia_Airways_Flight_235

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5 hours ago, PTK said:

Bob was a friend and a fellow Angel Flight pilot. We had flown together and he was a very capable pilot. He loved his Baron. We spoke on the phone Tuesday evening and he mentioned the flight and the wx he was monitoring. Wednesday morning VAY was LIFR ceilings around 400. I didn’t think he’d go but he went. If he had trouble and needed to get back in there was no way because there are no precision approaches. I heard today at the airport that both engines were running moments before the crash. Speculation is spatial disorientation and loss of control.

Tailwinds and clear skies Bob. 

This is the second friend based on my field who I have lost to a Baron crash. The first was Ron Lecates who crashed his Baron several years ago at MIV.

It’s very unsettling when it happens to someone close to you. We have to think on it as a learning opportunity. 

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9 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

If memory serves, the pilot feathered the good engine in that case. If so, this is a poor example to use as an engine failure accident in a twin; it was "pilot error".

So why the plane rolled to 90 deg. Still the cause of the crash was due to engine failure on takeoff

José

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