MBDiagMan

Bad Shoulder and Johnson Bar

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I took my C about 50 miles away to the avionics shop and am awaiting the call to pick it up.  The day after I left it there I hooked my flip flop on the rough edge of the pool steps and fell forward, catching myself on my right hand.  It screwed up my right shoulder pretty bad.  I have lost  cartilage in my old age and am afraid that it might not fully heel.

Has anyone else had shoulder problems that gave problems with Johnson bar landing gear?  I am not quite sure how this is going to work out long term.

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I am a vertically challenged weakling, no problems with my shoulder though.  I can do it just fine, though it did take some learning.  I've been told about women smaller than me learning the bar.  I think the key is to get it up while you're still slow, when the forces are at their minima.  Either that or have a big guy in the right seat to do it for you.

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I do the Mooney dip. After positive climb I tip the nose down at the exact same time as I release the gear and start the swing motion. It is really simple with very minimal effort. Once locked, I resume normal climb out. 

Hope you start feeling better!

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We had a new CFI discuss this similar challenge... she had a hand strength issue on her left hand and was going through the CFI training and FAA Test....

Find that thread around here somewhere for ideas of how to handle this....

As far as aging goes.... we all get to experience that blessing.  The alternative is worse.

 

I got to do some physical therapy trying to recover from age related physical challenges.  The local gym with a trainer has helped me improve on a lot of strength and smoothness of operation issues...  especially around shoulder motion...

Physical therapy can be expensive.  Physical training, not so bad.  Doing it without guidance can cost a ton if you reinjure something...

There is a lot to know about airspeed vs. ease of moving the J-bar.  The slower you are going the easier it gets...  experimenting with a CFI on board makes a lot of sense...  

know more, fear less....

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

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17 minutes ago, steingar said:

I am a vertically challenged weakling, no problems with my shoulder though.  I can do it just fine, though it did take some learning.  I've been told about women smaller than me learning the bar.  I think the key is to get it up while you're still slow, when the forces are at their minima.  Either that or have a big guy in the right seat to do it for you.

+1.   Sorry to hear of your injury.  I am also the proverbial 90lb weakling.  As you are likely aware, slow speed (80mph) retraction is the way to go,  or  if unable, the correctly timed "dip" basically makes the gear jump into the wheel well on its own with minimal force required.  Just push the nose down momentarily as you unlatch and the swing takes almost no force at all.  I'd owned it for 3 years before someone pointed out that trick to me, and it makes all the difference.  

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Forgot how hard it was to get the gear up on a go arounds after doing a few approaches with the CFI.  Of course I was above 80 and positive rate of climb.

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This is why I'm so glad to have electric gear. It ain't hard to move that white switch.  B)

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2 hours ago, Hank said:

This is why I'm so glad to have electric gear. It ain't hard to move that white switch.  B)

Me, too!

I was reticent to "go electric" when I bought my C.  20 years later...I'm so glad I did.

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Flip flops are the pox.  I know another guy that blew his out and then stepped on a pop top.  He cut his heel and had to cruise on back home.  Get better.

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16 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

Has anyone else had shoulder problems that gave problems with Johnson bar landing gear?  I am not quite sure how this is going to work out long term.

This was the reason that my E was sold to me--the PO could no longer operate the bar, even with the nod. He was 70+ back then (9 years ago).

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On my F I have to use the Mooney dip to get the gear up.  But it takes 0 effort once you get the technique down.

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On 6/6/2018 at 6:58 PM, Mooneymite said:

Me, too!

I was reticent to "go electric" when I bought my C.  20 years later...I'm so glad I did.

 

On 6/6/2018 at 4:09 PM, Hank said:

This is why I'm so glad to have electric gear. It ain't hard to move that white switch.  B)

I gotta find a cooler crowd to hang out with. :D

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20 minutes ago, rbridges said:

I gotta find a cooler crowd to hang out with. :D

If you’re lucky and live long enough you will understand...:blink:

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I have to pick up the Mooney from the Avionics shop on Tuesday.  If I can’t get the gear up, it’s going to be a really long 49NM flight.  If I can’t get the gear up when just off the runway as I usually do, I think I will climb straight out and once I get altitude, slow it to 80 and try the Mooney dip.  I am not very anxious to try learning it at low altitude.

Edited by MBDiagMan

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32 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

If I can’t get the gear up, it’s going to be a really long 49NM flight

No worries - just make sure radios calls go like " Warrior 7889P ................."  

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3 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

I have to pick up the Mooney from the Avionics shop on Tuesday.  If I can’t get the gear up, it’s going to be a really long 49NM flight.  If I can’t get the gear up when just off the runway as I usually do, I think I will climb straight out and once I get altitude, slow it to 80 and try the Mooney dip.  I am not very anxious to try learning it at low altitude.

Don't worry, I've done that twice. Just keep your airspeed under 120 mph.

First time was with my CFII, on a VOR-A approach along the Ohio River. Inbound over the VOR, dropped gear and had a total electrical failure. Hand cranked them the rest of the way down, discussed options and flew home. Second time, the wife and I took her coworker and husband to lunch, and the line guy pointed out "something was hanging down" by the nose wheel. It was the retract arm to the left gear door . . . . Flew home slowly, called my A&P and ordered a new part from LASAR.

Stuff happens. Your plane will deal with it. Just keep under gear speed and she'll be just fine.

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Memories. At least four times since I have owned my E I have forgotten to put the gear up. Every time I have been tooling along at 120 wondering what is wrong--then it hits me. The first two times I foolishly tried the dip at that speed and experienced not only weightlessness, but objects floating all over the cabin.

Proceed with caution.

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Okay, thanks for the advice and comments.  I was going to try the dip at about 80 indicated.  Sounds like it might not be a good idea.

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On 6/9/2018 at 4:45 PM, rbridges said:

 

I gotta find a cooler crowd to hang out with. :D

There are plenty of real men pilots still here. (That includes @mooneygirlwho had a nice vintage E and can swing the gear from the right seat if necessary.) 

Of course I'm only 75... I'll probably get old and feeble one of these years and I probably ought to be more sympathetic.

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Well, the avionics shop finished.  I picked up the plane very early this morning.  Bringing the gear up set my shoulder on fire!  This is a very revolting development.  This airplane is corrosion free, low time factory engine and prop and now has a 345 transponder to complement the 430W.  Now it might be that I can’t fly it.

I go for an MRI Monday and back to the orthopedic surgeon Wednesday for a follow up.  If I am now unable to fly her, I am not sure where I go next.  I am doing pretty well in my retirement, but I hate to deplete retirement funds to upgrade the airplane knowing that inflation looms ahead which will erode my level of effectiveness for my retirement funds.

Oh well, I am through crying you the river.

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You need treatment for this, can't be that you can not do this movement. I had a similar problem with my elbow and got treatment by a good chiropractic, never had a problem since.

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I am going to a sport medicine orthopedist and hoping for the best.  He x rayed yesterday, will MRI Monday and will see me again Wednesday.  Since it nvolves no remaining cartilage, I am not sure what he can do.

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I have found as I "mature" injuries take longer to heal than I think they should. Work with your ortho and see what can be done over time.

Don't get too down yet;  I have heard of techniques here on MS making a J-bar easier to retract. I am sure other J-bar pilots have suggestions that may help as well. Hang in there.

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Thanks Mooneymite and blue Highway!  I sent a message to Dugosh to see how expensive it would be.  That would be a wonderful solution.  If I were to start shopping for an electric gear plane I would end up with a J or K.  That’s not a bad thing except I would have twice as much money tied up in an airplane and the money tree that is growing down next to the creek is not producing the harvest that it used to.

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