self-service O2

[FloridaMan]

Maintenance shop on the field wants to charge $90 for O2 service. I think it’s something I can do myself. Can someone spell out how to set yourself up to service your own O2?

FOR CLARIFICATION, THIS IS FOR A ROCKET WITH BUILT-IN O2. 

[1964-M20E]

$90 is step for a refill especially for a small portable cylinder.  However, when in Rome if you need it you pay it.

I am guessing that since you have a 67F you are using portable O2 tanks.

There are some other threads on cascading one or more welding O2 cylinders at your hangar to refill you own portable tanks or even installed tanks.  It is not difficult and is safe if configured correctly.

Essentially you need a large welding O2 cylinder a connector that attaches to the welding tank valve, a connector that will attach to your portable tank valve, a high pressure O2 gauge and about 5' of high pressure minimum 3000psi working pressure hose between the tank connectors and maybe some type of high pressure 3 way valve to relive the pressure in the line before you disconnect it from the tanks.  Remember do NOT use oil on O2 connectors.

Connect the 2 cylinders together open the valve on the portable cylinder  and then open the valve on the large cylinder slowly at first.  Let the tanks stabilize for a while the smaller tank will warm up due to the O2 rushing in.  You could always cool the portable cylinder before hand to compensate for this.  Shut off the tank valves and disconnect.

You will get less and less O2 pressure in your portable cylinder for each successive refill then you will need to swap out the large cylinder for a new refilled one.  If you use O2 quite regularly you might want to have 2 large cylinders and then working them to get the most O2 in your portable as you can.

This does involve moving large O2 cylinders that weigh 60  or 70 pounds +/- you will need a truck to get them to and from the airport and welding supply unless you can get the welding shop to deliver the.  They may be hesitant suspecting that you will be using it for aviation.  Just make sure you have a welding torch there to show them that you are actually welding oh and don't forget a few pieces of cut steel with welding and cut marks on them for good measure.

 

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[FloridaMan]

I should have mentioned that I have two Mooneys now. I have my m20F and a 305 Rocket with built-in O2. 

[Yooper Rocketman]

I used to lease two tanks and had a cart with a home made filler system.  I eventually sold it to a small start up FBO with the agreement I got the first 5 fills for free, and all future ones for $25.  Well, over time that crept up to $50 per fill so I bought the fill adapter again, made the hose, grabbed a spare O2 gauge out of my weld shop, and I haul a full tank out when ever I need to top off.  A bit of a hassle, but I am always filling off a brand new "full" O2 tank.  I don't drop 50 pounds off the 1700-1800 PSI tank to fill the Mooney.  The filled tanks cost me $21.25 (largest size) so the actual cost for the O2 is about 65 cents.  Seems any of you could work out a deal with a weld shop to do the same thing and pay them $5  (a 770% mark-up) for using their tank to top off.  That would be much cheaper than paying for the bottles or the lease on the bottles AND the O2 to top them off.

Tom

[PaulM]

I'm sure there is data in the other threads.... but I have this system:  (Scott filler for mooneys) 

http://www.chiefaircraft.com/ao-fbo-1.html

that is a 2 tank cascade. 

and I picked up a CGA 570 to CGA 870 to fill portable bottles. 

I found old 250cf bottles on eBay, and swapped them with tractor supply (Blue pony)... no rental charges etc.    You need a hangar to keep the bottles in..   Keep the tools just for oxygen... don't use them on the plane. 

Fills should only be $20 or so... but at most places o2 fills are only for maintenance (jets) , so the line guys don't do it,  they require an AP... so the $90 is really AP time.. 

Also when traveling, bring your own scott adapter... I tried to get a fill in Utah, they had a 4 tank cascade, but they didn't have my adapter... so now I bring my own. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by PaulM

[L. Trotter]

3 hours ago, Antares said:

Maintenance shop on the field wants to charge $90 for O2 service. I think it’s something I can do myself. Can someone spell out how to set yourself up to service your own O2?

I have been trans filling O2 for over 20 years. You can fill safely on your own with a few basic understandings.

All O2 is generated by the same process these days. there is no difference (except price) between welding, medical or aviation O2. I have found that the aviation O2 will have a "certification" of purity if you ask for it. The product comes from the same distributer/plant.

Be aware to NEVER use petroleum products on threads or connectors. This can produce a spontaneous combustion problem. Petroleum and O2 not mix well.

Fill slowly by opening the O2 cylinder valve very slow then waiting 5-10 minutes before opening a little more. If you are filling an on board tank, will will damage the fill port valve on the plane if you go to fast. The valve will make a fluttering noise is you are filling to fast.

[Eraaen]

Ditto on the "bring your own adapter"  I bought a second one to keep in the plane.  I have found a few places in Florida who will fill for my return flight on weekends.  But, they never have the adaptor, and they are always AP.  it's never cheap away from home.

[DonMuncy]

First, you have to check the economics to see if you are sure you want to take it on. The parts and equipment are high enough that it would take you a pretty good while to recoup the costs unless you do a lot of O2 flying. And bear in mind, if you use a lot, you may still be paying for refilling when away from home. But the convenience of doing your own is a big plus to me and makes it well worth it. You will also likely endear yourself to your friends, and that too is worth something. (Plus, you can pretend to a CB while spending money.)

Re-read L.Trotters post above about the petroleum products and the potential damage to the filling valve.

I can carry my O2 tanks for refilling in my wife's Escort wagon.

If you have other questions, feel free to PM me. It takes a bunch of steps, but basically simple.

 

[Niko182]

just blow into the tank really hard.

[Yetti]

I traded two oxygen and 1 Acetylene tanks in at the local gas house and he gave me full ones back for $89.00

[FloridaMan]

The biggest “economic” issue is the same as with fueling. I don’t want to have to schedule an appointment to have an AP fill my onboard O2 so I want a tank in my hangar that I can top off, just like I do my fuel, when I’m going to take a trip. I don’t want to be restricted to 12,500 in a plane that can cruise at FL240 because I can’t get worked into a shop’s schedule. 

[Bob_Belville]

As mentioned there are previous threads here on setting up filler tanks in your hangar. 

I bought 2 150 cf tanks from from Airgas for filling the 24 cf portable tank I fly with. By buying the tanks I pay no rental fees for equipment. I take an empty tank to AirGas and exchange for a full one for about $20. 

In addition to the tank(s) you'll need a manifold/adapter to fill your portable tank. I spend about $115 with Branton Veterinary Anesthesia Service (Ebay store)  for Oxygen Transfill Adaptor CGA540 to CGA540. (I move the hose from tank to tank. To eliminate that step would just involve a little more hose and fittings. The more tanks in the cascade the more efficient the system. You can't get more gas (read pressure) in the flying tank than the highest pressure supply tank. This can be an issue with a FBO as well. You might only get 1700 psi in your fill instead on a nominal 2000 psi full tank.  

This will fill your portable system quite a few times. Obviously the larger built in system will require bigger storage or more cascading tanks but do in yourself is still the most economical way to go.

 

[larryb]

I have the Mountain High O2D2 in my Encore, fed by the on-board 112 cu-ft tank. I just completed flying 40 hours around the country at 16,000 to 17,000 feet, 2 people, and went from around 1500 psi to 1100 psi. If you have this system you will rarely have to fill, and you will never have to fill away from home. 

I also have a transfill system in my hanger and do my own fills. I also used it to "top off" my tanks. This was before the encore when I was using portable tanks. I soon realized that using the cascade transfill is much more efficient if your tank is close to empty. This is because you get a lot more oxygen out of your low pressure cascade tank if the target tank pressure is low. Once my low pressure tank was lower than my target tank and O2 flowed out of my portable tank and back in to the big tank. 

[Bob_Belville]

5 minutes ago, larryb said:

Once my low pressure tank was lower than my target tank and O2 flowed out of my portable tank and back in to the big tank. 

Water still flows downhill. Who knew? 

[smwash02]

21 hours ago, Antares said:

Maintenance shop on the field wants to charge $90 for O2 service. I think it’s something I can do myself. Can someone spell out how to set yourself up to service your own O2?

I try to avoid meddling with high pressure stuff. Also remember it's in your best interest to do the hydrostatic checks.

Find yourself a welding supply shop. The one by me does $20 exchanges for my bottle. I've got an aluminum one, so they just tack on another $30 or so when it's due during the exchange.

[Marauder]

20 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

First, you have to check the economics to see if you are sure you want to take it on. The parts and equipment are high enough that it would take you a pretty good while to recoup the costs unless you do a lot of O2 flying. And bear in mind, if you use a lot, you may still be paying for refilling when away from home. But the convenience of doing your own is a big plus to me and makes it well worth it. You will also likely endear yourself to your friends, and that too is worth something. (Plus, you can pretend to a CB while spending money.)

Re-read L.Trotters post above about the petroleum products and the potential damage to the filling valve.

I can carry my O2 tanks for refilling in my wife's Escort wagon.

If you have other questions, feel free to PM me. It takes a bunch of steps, but basically simple.

 

 

20 hours ago, Antares said:

The biggest “economic” issue is the same as with fueling. I don’t want to have to schedule an appointment to have an AP fill my onboard O2 so I want a tank in my hangar that I can top off, just like I do my fuel, when I’m going to take a trip. I don’t want to be restricted to 12,500 in a plane that can cruise at FL240 because I can’t get worked into a shop’s schedule. 

You will need to do the math to make sure it is worth building your own system. I have a 3 tank system in my hangar that 4 of us with portable tanks are refilling from. The reality, only 2 of us are using it a lot, while the other two have only a couple of fill-ups in the past year. With the Rocket, I think it will make sense to build one. I think we pay $150 per year to rent the tanks, and something like $16 to refill a 280 cu.ft. tank. The transfill is not cheap. I think it is around $500 for everything. There are some eBay sellers that have cheaper solutions.

[jaylw314]

With portable systems, a D size cylinder only costs $15 to fill at a welding shop and $25 to hydro test.  That would last about 8-15 hours for 2 people with rebreather cannulae.  It's kind of hard to justify the time and expense of a transfill setup with portable systems.  Built-in oxygen systems are a different matter, though--kind of hard to take those into a welding shop

[thinwing]

My system consist of a c cylinder and a smaller d.It was found abandoned in one of the hangars and had attached transfil plumbing.I had to have both tanks hydro inspected and have found that full tank will last for years if you are willing to accept smaller fills.My 115 cu built in will supply two people for about 8 /10 flight hours at half fill.I am just about ready to refil my storage cylinders after 4 years ...

 

 

[FloridaMan]

It seems that the thread has gone in a way other than answering my question. I have a Mooney 305 Rocket with built-in O2. I am not asking about refilling a portable cylinder; I am talking about servicing the O2 from the port on the side of the airplane. 

[jaylw314]

1 minute ago, Antares said:

It seems that the thread has gone in a way other than answering my question. I have a Mooney 305 Rocket with built-in O2. I am not asking about refilling a portable cylinder; I am talking about servicing the O2 from the port on the side of the airplane. 

Ooops!  I looked at the wrong profile (@1964-M20E) and thought you had an M20F.  Never mind me!

[FloridaMan]

Just now, jaylw314 said:

Ooops!  I looked at the wrong profile (@1964-M20E) and thought you had an M20F.  Never mind me!

I had it on my profile about two minutes ago. I realized that may've been part of the cause for confusion. Technically, I still have the M20F and I think I'll hold onto it for a bit. 

[jaylw314]

4 minutes ago, Antares said:

I had it on my profile about two minutes ago. I realized that may've been part of the cause for confusion. Technically, I still have the M20F and I think I'll hold onto it for a bit. 

Phew!  I thought I was getting demented

[Bryan]

I am in a similar situation as you.  I have a 252 with onboard O2.  Another M20 owner at my field has the setup and it looks like this:

• Two (large) O2 bottles, swapped out at our local welding supply store: Welsco, Inc for about $20/swap
• a transfill system for the two-bottle system: Aerox FBO-1 Filler  (~350$)
• Aerox Scott Portable Filling Adaptor  (~65$)

So you are at about $400 without the bottles which you can either rent or purchase/swap.  I have been looking at Craigslist, eBay, Facebook for welders getting rid of their bottles.

Ultimate I would like to have a single bottle with a Haskel Air Amplifier which takes a single bottle and "pumps" it into your onboard tank using a pneumatic mechanism instead of equalization techniques above - but those are super expensive.