RobertGary1 Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 I have to admit I don't pull mine every oil change as Lycoming and Mooney say to because its such a pain. Just getting a wrench to fit around the footwell is a hassle. Just curious if anyone here has found a specific wrench or technique to make this less cumbersome? -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 I never had a problem getting a wrench on it, but getting the screen and the cap to align are a pain. Have managed to get my finger stuck in such a way that I though I would remain one with the plane. Safety wire can be a pain too.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 Nope, just practice! I love my angled 70°/30° snap on wrenches! -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Harral Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 I haven't found anything that makes it "easy", but I've done it enough times that I no longer necessarily dread it. First order of business is a set of long reach pliers, e.g. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Crescent-X2-Long-Reach-Pliers-Set-2-Piece-PSX204C/205155920 I have a similar long-reach diagonal cutter. These items make it much easier to cut and pull the safety wire on removal, and to get the safety wire started on reassembly. Once the safety wire is off, I just use a conventional, combination hand wrench to loosen the bolt. The slight angle on the closed-end side of the wrench is just right to slip the wrench over the bolt head and get good purchase. On our airplane, it only takes a total of 1/2 to 1 turns to break torque, then the bolt can be turned by hand... er... fingers, as I describe below. After the bolt is loose comes the worst part - jamming both hands in and around the footwell, where I can just reach enough of the bolt with one finger on each hand to rotate it. It hurts, and I cuss a lot, and every once in a while the bolt catches just enough that I have to pull out my hands and go back in with the wrench for 1/4 turn. But patience is rewarded in the end. I haven't changed this technique in a number of years. I have some ratcheting closed-end wrenches and have tried to use them in the past, but they don't really help - the bolt is too loose for the ratchet to catch. About the only thing that helps is a 10-year old with small hands, and I've used that method at least once. Reassembly is just the reverse of disassembly, no additional tools. These days, pulling the screen adds probably about 20 minutes total time to an oil change. Some of that is because I can never remember which side of the crush washer is supposed to go against the pan vs. the bolt head, and have to look it up. You'd think I'd just take note of the orientation when I pull the old one off, but I seem to forget that, too. Mostly it's just a practice-makes-perfect thing. I confess that I, too, don't always do it at every oil change. But I do manage to average about every other change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 Don't do it angry! You will end up throwing things across the hangar! If your fingers aren't bleeding a little bit when you are done, you are doing it wrong! This is the tool for doing the lock wire: https://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?id=134L 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 Solid side to the bolt is how I remember it!! (Soild side of the crush washer to the bolt or fitting.) -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 33 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said: I have to admit I don't pull mine every oil change as Lycoming and Mooney say to because its such a pain. Just getting a wrench to fit around the footwell is a hassle. Just curious if anyone here has found a specific wrench or technique to make this less cumbersome? -Robert I do a lot of owner maintenance but I get Nathan Simmons @AGL Aviation do the screen at almost every oil change. He brings a few tools to my hangar and it only takes him a few minutes. Perhaps Tamara can get us a pic of any special tools that help... I know he has long reach pliers, snips. And I know he stays in hock to the tool truck who visits AGL every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGL Aviation Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 I do a lot of owner maintenance but I get Nathan Simmons [mention=14357]AGL Aviation[/mention] do the screen at almost every oil change. He brings a few tools to my hangar and it only takes him a few minutes. Perhaps Tamara can get us a pic of any special tools that help... I know he has long reach pliers, snips. And I know he stays in hock to the tool truck who visits AGL every week. 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 5 hours ago, RobertGary1 said: I have to admit I don't pull mine every oil change as Lycoming and Mooney say to because its such a pain... You can pull and pull till the cows come home! Try putting a wrench on it and turn it instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 (edited) I've pulled (unscrewed) that thing probably 100 times in my Mooney life. I've never found anything clogging it. Has Anybody? I think doing it at engine overhaul would be sufficient. I think it is a conspiracy from the lock wire and crush washer cartel. Edited May 29, 2018 by N201MKTurbo 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 Only at annual. Do y’all access it from the top (with filter removed) or from the bottom. Seems from the top, while standing on a stool would give you good access. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGL Aviation Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 I've pulled (unscrewed) that thing probably 100 times in my Mooney life. I've never found anything clogging it. Has Anybody? I think doing it at engine overhaul would be sufficient. I think it is a conspiracy from the lock wire and crush washer cartel. We've had a few screens throw up some red flags. As with alot of things - it's better to catch a problem early on in hopes of a 'simple' repair or replacement rather than something resulting in a major overhaul/a new engine. Plus, if something is going wrong with the engine/components, no one would want to find that out in the air with their family. Cartel conspiracy: possibly so! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted May 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 24 minutes ago, teejayevans said: Only at annual. Do y’all access it from the top (with filter removed) or from the bottom. Seems from the top, while standing on a stool would give you good access. i've been going at it from the side. -Robert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 50 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said: i've been going at it from the side. -Robert Are we still talking about suction screens? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 (edited) It was put there to make Mooney annuals cost more than most other airplane types. Clarence Edited May 29, 2018 by M20Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 Since it is there to catch “chunks”, why not just install a chip detector. Then, if the light comes on, there’s reason to pull the screen? Ooops. That would cut down on the cost of maintenance. Sorry, Clarence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 AGL showed me a thimble full of metal collected in the screen and in the filter a few weeks ago during an annual. He grounded the M20C due to the excessive amount. There was no problem at the previous annual 1 year and about 40(?) hours earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Bob_Belville said: AGL showed me a thimble full of metal collected in the screen and in the filter a few weeks ago during an annual. He grounded the M20C due to the excessive amount. There was no problem at the previous annual 1 year and about 40(?) hours earlier. This sucks; not fun. I got some good advise in my similar thread; my plane is still in annual awaiting an intake bellows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted May 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said: Are we still talking about suction screens? Yes. I've been putting a wrench on it from the side (touching the footwell). -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 I'm not saying that I'm going to stop pulling it at annual, but so far everyone has said that whenever they find stuff on the suction screen they also found stuff in the filter or pressure screen. So, I'll rephrase my question. Has anybody ever found something on the suction screen and didn't also find something in the filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: I'm not saying that I'm going to stop pulling it at annual, but so far everyone has said that whenever they find stuff on the suction screen they also found stuff in the filter or pressure screen. So, I'll rephrase my question. Has anybody ever found something on the suction screen and didn't also find something in the filter? The worst one I’ve ever seen was clogged half full of carbon particles, it looked like coffee grounds. The customer arrived complaining of oil pressure fluctuations. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, M20Doc said: The worst one I’ve ever seen was clogged half full of carbon particles, it looked like coffee grounds. The customer arrived complaining of oil pressure fluctuations. Clarence And nothing in the filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: And nothing in the filter? Very little in the pressure filter, my thought was that the stuff in the suction screen was acting as an additional filter trapping the majority of the particles. I've also seen a number of engines with hundreds of hours in which the suction screen had never been removed and cleaned, or the maintainer was repainting the safety wire each time. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 I had an client with an engine from 2006. It still had the factory gray painted crush gasket as of last year on the suction screen. We’ve all reused crush gaskets... but TEN years. Lol. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpbarnar Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Mooneymite said: Since it is there to catch “chunks”, why not just install a chip detector. Then, if the light comes on, there’s reason to pull the screen? Chip detectors pick up ferrous metals. To best of my knowledge, they do not dectect non ferrous material. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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