Multi-Training

[TWinter]

I closed the deal on the 1966 Twin Comanche last Thursday.  Today was the official first day of Multi-engine training. I've been up in the PA-30 Twin Comanche a few times lately with a fellow pilot , however, today was technically my first day with a CFI. Two hrs in 95 degree Tennessee heat made for a sweaty cockpit, but I still manage to learn between the sweat drops off my brow. 

Other than the simulated engine out,  the strangest feeling after today's training was getting comfortable with the sight picture on landings. I would not have expected the sight picture to be that much different than the Mooney, but to me that was a challenge. After a few botched  landings I finally got the hang of it on the third try. It's a much more aggressive nose down attitude compared to the Mooney approach. We also worked some slow flight, simulated engine out, simulated engine out with gradual turns. Lots to learn, but today was a awesome experience.

Also had the pleasure of meeting a fellow Mooniac at Dewitt Spain Airport this afternoon, he was in his new to him 231K. Great looking Mooney.

-Tom

[steingar]

Only accidental runway departure I was ever in was a Twinkie.  Blew a tire and wound up in the weeds.

[TWinter]

12 minutes ago, steingar said:

Only accidental runway departure I was ever in was a Twinkie.  Blew a tire and wound up in the weeds.

Well, if I truly fess up not only were my landings poor I did mess up my call sign a few times and announced "Mooney 41Mike on left base" etc...instead of "Twin Comanche 68Yankee"

 

[neilpilot]

Tom, you should come on down to Memphis more often.  It never got into the 90s today.  Currently a  chilly 85 in my yard.

[TWinter]

2 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

Tom, you should come on down to Memphis more often.  It never got into the 90s today.  Currently a  chilly 85 in my yard.

I picked the CFI up in the Mooney. We flew back to Dyersburg and worked Dyer County air for awhile. After the lesson he took my Comanche back to Memphis. I'll keep it there for the training. Maybe chilly 85 in your backyard, but trust me it was 90s+ in that Comanche cockpit..whew.. I'm scheduled for Wed-Fri-Sat and a pretty full schedule next week. Maybe we can grab lunch one day? I'll keep you posted on the schedule.

-Tom

[carusoam]

TW,

Subtle signs of a high cognitive loading...

Practice and training in a new environment sounds like a familiar challenge...

Keep reporting your progress.  Sounds like a blast!

Best regards,

-a-

[KLRDMD]

40 minutes ago, TWinter said:

Two hrs in 95 degree Tennessee heat made for a sweaty cockpit, but I still manage to learn between the sweat drops off my brow. 

I've done flight training the last three days in AZ. We start at 6AM and are done by 10AM. It was 58º yesterday morning and never over 90º by 10AM. But . . . it's a dry heat here.

[TWinter]

7 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

I've done flight training the last three days in AZ. We start at 6AM and are done by 10AM. It was 58º yesterday morning and never over 90º by 10AM. But . . . it's a dry heat here.

I'm a New England transplant. Been here 20 yrs and still hate the heat. Give me some 70s-80s..even 60s and I'm good to go. This mid-south Tennessee heat/humidity just kills my headset hair-due.  

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, TWinter said:

This mid-south Tennessee heat/humidity just kills my headset hair-due.  

Get a set of Halos, then you have one less thing to blame your hair on . . . .

In the meantime, please enjoy some good barbecue!

[Andy95W]

Good luck with the multi- training.

In getting your new rating, you'll notice the irony In how much time you spend flying around with only one engine in your new twin!

[steingar]

Actually, the OP deserve more than a little thanks.  Someone needs to keep these old airplanes flying, and it certainly isn't going to be the fellow who appears to me in the mirror.

[TWinter]

Second day of training.. Started with class-room work discussing air-flow and torque with respect to critical engine etc.. Afterwards worked on engine out ops, recovery of engine out, slow flight, stalls and usual. Went to west Memphis where they have longer (6000') runway and worked take-off and landing with flaps, no flaps. Later worked on steep turns, ironically probably one of our most basic maneuvers, but boy did I struggle. At 40 degrees either left or right I was having a tough time maintaining altitude. It was another very hot day and I honestly think I was worn-out from the earlier training and not focusing on the horizon and my vertical speed scan and altitude. It's probably been since my PP days in the early 90s that I was demonstrating 40-45 degree steep turns so I'm hoping it will come back soon. On the bright side I nailed all my landings spot on and am feeling more comfortable with the plane. One thing about the twin is use of rudder is very minimal. Not sure if it is just this Comanche or twins in general, but very little rudder use is needed.

I'll also say this about our great Mooney birds..We have awesome inside airflow and cabin ventilation. The Comanche has a inflatable door seal and has very poor cabin circulation compared to our Mooney. Small vents on the dash installed and that's pretty much it. Very stuffy feeling.  I really enjoyed the 55 mile flight home in my Mooney with the top scoop open and the side vents and console vent blowing fresh air. Day two in the books. Many more needed..lol     Who in there right mind picks June, a hot summer Tennessee month to try to earn another rating in a non-air-conditioned cabin. Well, it does have AC, just does not turn on until 5000' feet. This guy does...whew..warm days.

 

-Tom

[kris_adams]

Enjoy!  I absolutely loved getting my multi.  Of course I still need to go buy one and do my multi-instrument add on.  Thanks for sharing your stories.  Very interesting.

[Piloto]

Make sure you keep both engines well maintained. 3700 pounds on 160 HP on single engine operation is not the same performance as a Mooney (2700lb/200hp) on takeoff, specially at altitude and hot.

José

Edited June 2, 2018 by Piloto

[TWinter]

Day 3 in the books. Good session. Worked on engine out at cruise and setting up for short term cruise or resolution. More steep turns, I was much more prepared today for the steep turns. The right steep turns are coming along nicely. Still losing altitude on left turns, not bad, but need some work. Did a few take off and landings. Feeling very happy with my landings and short field work. I think M01 is 3800' x 75' . I've been making the landings in plenty of time for the next to last turn-off. Feel very good with the overall training. No regrets so far. Next week we have sessions scheduled Mon-Fri next week. Fortunately, no days have been weathered out so the wheels keep turning. More updates to follow. We are already starting to talk about schedules for IFR training. My only regret is I did not start the advanced training sooner.

 

-Tom

[Piloto]

At full gross, takeoff configuration and at 3000ft AGL and at V1 kill one engine and try to recover. If you go below 3000ft you would have crash on takeoff. 

Most catastrophic engine failures happen on takeoff due to high stress on the engines and low airspeed.

José

Edited June 3, 2018 by Piloto

[KLRDMD]

2 hours ago, Piloto said:

Most catastrophic engine failures happen on takeoff due to high stress on the engines and low airspeed.

How does the engine know the airspeed ?

[M016576]

1 hour ago, KLRDMD said:

How does the engine know the airspeed ?

I’m guessing maybe cooling airflow?  I don’t know.... maybe he meant catastrophic mishaps involving engine failure.  

The Blue Line is a killer in a twin- that’s why it’s a demo item.

[TWinter]

6 hours ago, M016576 said:

I’m guessing maybe cooling airflow?  I don’t know.... maybe he meant catastrophic mishaps involving engine failure.  

The Blue Line is a killer in a twin- that’s why it’s a demo item.

One of the thing drilled into the memory is the blue line on the air-speed indicator is your best friend with the twin.

1.On take off roll and engine dies, first control the plane and power back, exit runway and shut down

2. On take off and airborne and engine dies with gear still down and enough runway left, control the plane and set it back down, power back and taxi off- shut down.

3. On take off and if is gear up and engine goes out w/ no usable runway. Maintain control, clean up, full forward on mixture, prop and power.  Identify, verify, dead throttle to marked position (near fast idle). establish best climb for single engine.  Decide whether you will return to the airport or establish a cruise (whole different check-list if you plan to fix) or attempt fix..If staying in the air check fuel selector, fuel boost pumps, mag etc..Most would suggest you turn back for landing instead of climb and fix.  

This is what three days of flying has drilled into my head. I might have some of the procedure above slightly out order, but this is the gist of three days. Still learning.

Always keeping the blue line alive.

 

-Tom

[KLRDMD]

3 hours ago, TWinter said:

This is what three days of flying has drilled into my head. I might have some of the procedure above slightly out order, but this is the gist of three days. Still learning.

You forgot "feather", kinda an important memory item.

[ilovecornfields]

I still remember the mantra I had to recite every time even though I haven’t flown a twin in 20 years:

Maintain directional control

Pitch for blue line

Everything forward and everything up

_ foot dead, _ engine dead

Veryify

Feather

edit: almost forgot the last step “Raise the dead!”

Now you’re making me start to miss twins. Too bad many of them are slower than the Mooney.

Edited June 3, 2018 by ilovecornfields

[TWinter]

4 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

You forgot "feather", kinda an important memory item.

It's Sunday morning..cut me some slack. I was still sipping on my first cup of Java. You got the point. Lots to remember. .lol

I was really referring to the initial take-off and aborted take-off. If I detailed every movement we would be on page 10. 

@Cornfields... I was surprised the Comanche and my E both run close in speed. The guy I bought it from was all about the knots. He added most every speed mod he came across. I'd still like the cowl enclosure, but after just sending in sales tax, starting a new insurance policy on the Comanche and renewing my Mooney..well, the wallet is light for a while. I'll just fly, learn and enjoy. 

-Tom

 

[Guest]

On 6/2/2018 at 4:40 PM, Piloto said:

Make sure you keep both engines well maintained. 3700 pounds on 160 HP on single engine operation is not the same performance as a Mooney (2700lb/200hp) on takeoff, specially at altitude and hot.

José

PA30 gross weight is 3600 with or without turbos, 3725 with tip tanks, 3800 with Robertson STOL.

Clarence

[Guest]

The Vmc was raised from 80 to 90 by an AD.  In Canada we have to comply with Piper S/L 558 which adds a rudder/aileron inter connect system, adds stall triggers to the wing leading edges, a rudder airflow seal, and reduces stabilator up travel.

Until very recently actual engine shut down and re-start were required for a multi rating.

If your PA 30 is ismiliar in speed to your E model, you’re nto flying it right or there is something wrong with it.

Clarence

Edited June 3, 2018 by M20Doc

[TWinter]

On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 5:38 PM, M20Doc said:

The Vmc was raised from 80 to 90 by an AD.  In Canada we have to comply with Piper S/L 558 which adds a rudder/aileron inter connect system, adds stall triggers to the wing leading edges, a rudder airflow seal, and reduces stabilator up travel.

Until very recently actual engine shut down and re-start were required for a multi rating.

If your PA 30 is ismiliar in speed to your E model, you’re nto flying it right or there is something wrong with it.

Clarence

I'm only about 5 hrs into it. We are primarily flying in the training area just outside of Memphis Bravo...I have not had a chance to compare with the legs stretched out. I know what the books say and you are very correct. I'm anxious to just fly in straight lines for a change instead of circles or slow speed engine out configuration. On the bright side steep turns are getting better and landings are pretty consistent.