Looking for input to modify Mooney for short copilot

[BrianW]

Hi all,

My wife and I wanted to learn to fly and get our own plane.  She thought it would be great to visit all the States since we are trying to run a marathon in each State.  

Flight training for two people would be expensive.  But we thought one way to reduce cost in the long run would be if we bought the plane we'd eventally want anyway, and take lessons in it, and not rent all those hours.

She agreed, and we bought a Mooney M20J a little over a year ago.  We really love it.  

I recently got my pilot's licence and my wife is getting close to completing hers (she's not using the Mooney for her lessons).

My wife is 5'-1" and has trouble reaching the pedals.  She'd like me to make adjustments to the copilot's side to fit her better.

I see Lasar has an item "copilot side pedal extension".  But since the copilot's side is just rudder and no brake, I'm not sure what a brakeless rudder pedal extension would look like?

Does anyone have a picture of the copilots side rudder pedal extension?

Another thought I had was, if I have to buy pedal extensions maybe for a bit more money for used parts I could modify her side to add copilot brakes. I think this would add value to the plane too.

I've read in searches here that some have added copilot brakes using used parts.  One question; are the pedals, arms, and linkages the same as the pilot's side? Could I buy a used set of pilot side brake pedals and mount them (with labor to add the attachment points) on the copilot's side? 

As for the seat, she needs 3 to 4 inches added to the butt and back.  There doesn't seem to be an inexpensive way to get an articulating seat base, if one could be found at all.  Any tips?

My low cost thought was to buy 4" thick foam, and make seat bottom and back cushions.  I'd sure appeciate hearing other's ideas and solutions.

Thanks

Brian

Edited May 24, 2018 by BrianW
Typos

[neilpilot]

5 minutes ago, BrianW said:

I see Lasar has an item "copilot side pedal extension".  But since the copilot's side is just rudder and no brake, I'm not sure what a brakeless rudder pedal extension would look like?

Assume you've seen the photo on their website.  Note that the extensions are sold individually, i.e. you would need 2 to extend both copilot's rudder pedals.  Have you called Lasar?  

[carusoam]

Call lasar on the phone... they are really good at helping customers down to the deep technical or simple tie-down questions...

There are ways to boost the seat.  Adjust the seat. And add pedal extensions depending on what you have... pedal extensions come in a variety of thicknesses.

Adding holes to seat rails, fixing worn seat parts, getting good seat cushion replacements...

Start with the temporary parts, then move up to more permanent solutions...

Mooney made some really good adjustable seats for a time... hard to find, and really expensive...

Comparing pilot total height is not the most valuable data for this... better to read the label on the back of the Levi’s.... 

PP thoughts only....

Best regards,

-a-

 

[steingar]

The OP's spouse isn't short, she's a midget.  That out of the way, from a fellow vertically challenged individual I can tell you the most effective and parsimonious solution to being able to see over things and reach things.  They're called pillows.  Happy to help.

One of the chief reasons I love the short bodied Mooney is it is one of the few aircraft in which I can see over the nose without sitting on a cushion.

[Hank]

My 5'3" wife sits on 3 stacked chair cushions, and pulls the seat forward only until it locks in place. She then has several inches of clear space between her feet and the pedals. For her to actually use the pedals, I'm pretty sure that extensions would be necessary. 

[kortopates]

I only know of rudder pedal extensions for brake pedals. But I question the value of putting in dual brakes just to get to reachable rudder pedals. You are in for sticker shock for how much that will cost you.
Instead I suggest getting the 3" extensions for the pilot side and letting her have the left seat. As a new pilot, don't expect her to transition to the Mooney from the right seat. But now that you are probably getting comfortable in it, you might be very well ready to learn to fly it from the right seat. You can always add dual brakes later on after your wife is flying the Mooney.
My wife also requires the 3" extensions and she now owns the left seat and I stick to the right unless I am flying solo. But as an instructor I am use to flying from the right seat. We also have dual brakes.



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[Yetti]

Boat cushions.  Like the throwable PFD class IV ones add about 2 inches of thickness without compression.

[flyboy0681]

I'm 5' 4" and have the 3" extensions on the left brakes pedals. I can reach them very easily but have to sit with the pins in the second row. As others have mentioned here,  finding an articulating seat frame is nearly impossible. It too me six years but finally located a pair, and they were not cheap. I gave one to my wife as a gift (she was forever grateful) and sold the other to a fellow Mooneyspacer.

 

 

[Seth]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

I'm 5' 4" and have the 3" extensions on the left brakes pedals. I can reach them very easily but have to sit with the pins in the second row. As others have mentioned here,  finding an articulating seat frame is nearly impossible. It too me six years but finally located a pair, and they were not cheap. I gave one to my wife as a gift (she was forever grateful) and sold the other to a fellow Mooneyspacer.

 

 

And my wife is thrilled that I purchased it!  Thanks again for finding that set!!

-Seth

[flyboy0681]

4 minutes ago, Seth said:

And my wife is thrilled that I purchased it!  Thanks again for finding that set!!

-Seth

Another satisfied customer!

[Marauder]

My wife is 5'2" tall (not wide). She uses one of these (they come in different thicknesses) from Aircraft Spruce:

 

[DonMuncy]

6 hours ago, David Herman said:

I have heard the 3” extensions are more tedious to install? 

Maybe just a little, but not much. It is a bit of a pain crawling headfirst into the footwell. but other than that, not very bad. Make sure to remove the front seats before you start. 

By the way, these are not very difficult to have a hangar elf build.

[Pritch]

Don't know if this will help but it is some drawings I downloaded a couple of yrs ago for I believe a DYI pedal extension.

Pritch

scan rudder0001.pdf

[John Mininger]

I installed the 3" extensions in our 201 within the last year. I'm 5'7", and I'm much more comfortable now without the yoke in my chest. I found the installation to be rather easy. The hardest part was getting access to the original Clevis pins to remove the pedals. I remember having to use some mirrors. Once you install the extensions on the pedals, there's a lot more room behind them to reinstall the Clevis pins as you're putting them back in the plane. 

[BrianW]

Thank you guys for the helpful info.   Yeah, I am leaning towards augmented cushions.  I think I'll find upholstery foam and shape it to match the contours of the current seat.  Then I'll upholster them into a seat cover so they stay put and match the interior.

As for the rudder pedal extension, the copilot side doesn't have the break pedal linkage.  It is a simple tee bar.  I could make something that fits the simple cross tube of the copilot rudder pedal, but I prefer not to reinvent the wheel.  I'm sure there must be an easy proven solution but I couldn't find any image for the brakeless copilot rudder pedal extension anywhere.  I even looked allover Lasar and couldn't find an image.

As for the midget comment, nope she isn't.  She is simply a petite woman. But she is at the tiny end of the spectrum when compared to the size of the normal European man-size that the plane was designed around.

[Piloto]

Try these ones, no STC required.

https://www.tallmenshoes.com/bcasual.html

José

 

 

[flyboy0681]

1 hour ago, Piloto said:

Try these ones, no STC required.

https://www.tallmenshoes.com/bcasual.html

José

 

 

Elevator shoes? As a small person I'm insulted.

(not really, but it sounded good )

 

[Andy95W]

7 hours ago, BrianW said:

 

As for the rudder pedal extension, the copilot side doesn't have the break pedal linkage.  It is a simple tee bar. 

If you need 3" extensions, I think I'd just make a 'T' out of two short pieces of 2x4, drill a couple of holes in each leg of the T, and use 3 hose clamps (each pedal) to hold them on.  Since they're not really attached, it's not even an alteration.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

If you need 3" extensions, I think I'd just make a 'T' out of two short pieces of 2x4, drill a couple of holes in each leg of the T, and use 3 hose clamps (each pedal) to hold them on.  Since they're not really attached, it's not even an alteration.

Exactly what I was thinking! 

[Stephen]

11 minutes ago, Hank said:

Exactly what I was thinking! 

ala the kid from Indiana Jones:

 

 

[BrianW]

Hi All,

I was able to buy a complete copilot brake kit used for $450.  I installed the brake kit under supervision of my A&P.  For me the most time consuming part was the bending and forming of the 4 metal brake lines to be perfectly in position, parallel, and straight...looks like  a perfect factory installation.

LASAR had a sale on the 3" copilot brake extension kit for $250 each, so for authentic Mooney parts, I went for it.

NOTE: Mooney brake extension kit includes new pedals!  Yes, they are cast the same as stock pedals. But the hole for the brake linkage is drilled in a different spot (see photos).  Changing the hole location changes how the pedals align and mount in the Mooney. 

Building the extension brackets yourself would require you to either accept toebrake pedals shifted more aft - meaning you could accidentally depress the brakes when you are on the rudders, or you would have to know how to reposition the holes in your fabricated extension, and if you did then they would not match the original part specification.

So $250 with a new pedal seemed like a good deal.

Since, I was doing all the work, rather than reuse the original copilot rubber hoses, I decided to install new rubber lines.  And if I'm ordering new rubber lines for copilot, it seemed a good idea to replace my old rubber pilot side brake lines as well.

After installation, I left it to my A&P to do the adjustments and testing to the new brakes.

They look and move great. I can't wait to see how happy my wife will be when she can reach the pedals and be able to stop the Mooney.

Now if I could only find a reasonably priced articulating seat base.

Brian

[carusoam]

3 dimensional artwork!

Great pics.

Thanks for sharing,

-a-

[flyboy0681]

I agree, great artwork.

Good luck on the articulating seat frame, they rarely come up for sale, and if found, don't come cheap.