thinwing Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 So three partners owned this Bravo out right,than took 100 k debt later ,with each of the three partners guaranteeing entire amount of debt .Your concern is "the maintance looming"what is that,the pucks,O2 bottle ,next annual...or the big one ..engine o/h at some foreseen future?A pretty nice high time Bravo just sold recently After it was turned over to All American.Pretty similar equipment and I don't think it had TKS I believe it went for 130k .Your bird appears pretty similar,and that Garmin 750 was pretty costly install.And obviously the 20k in the bank is part of the deal.The 150 asking appears not entirely unjustified,especially in a partnership situation.I guessing your real concern is assuming that loan,probably best you sit on this until you can really figure out what you can afford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 hours ago, thinwing said: So three partners owned this Bravo out right,than took 100 k debt later ,with each of the three partners guaranteeing entire amount of debt .Your concern is "the maintance looming"what is that,the pucks,O2 bottle ,next annual...or the big one ..engine o/h at some foreseen future?A pretty nice high time Bravo just sold recently After it was turned over to All American.Pretty similar equipment and I don't think it had TKS I believe it went for 130k .Your bird appears pretty similar,and that Garmin 750 was pretty costly install.And obviously the 20k in the bank is part of the deal.The 150 asking appears not entirely unjustified,especially in a partnership situation.I guessing your real concern is assuming that loan,probably best you sit on this until you can really figure out what you can afford. N64HK that you're referring to did have TKS but it was not certified for known icing and had good maintenance records. He started out at about 170K firm and then finally dropped it to 135K firm and then turned it over to AAA where it took awhile to sell since it was within 100 hrs of TBO. I always kinda laugh when someone lists a price as firm - the market will determine whether that price is firm or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 Do you know what it sold for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, thinwing said: Do you know what it sold for? I don't but I would think somewhere between 120k - 130k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 I know the owner tried to self market it for about a year ,than Jimmy took over and it was sold shortly after.Shows what a good broker can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, thinwing said: I know the owner tried to self market it for about a year ,than Jimmy took over and it was sold shortly after.Shows what a good broker can do. As good as Jimmy is it still took him 6 months from September through March for it to sell. Very difficult sale with a high time engine on a Bravo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 Interesting...I think they only have 2/3 now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boilermonkey Posted May 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 N64HK that you're referring to did have TKS but it was not certified for known icing and had good maintenance records. He started out at about 170K firm and then finally dropped it to 135K firm and then turned it over to AAA where it took awhile to sell since it was within 100 hrs of TBO. I always kinda laugh when someone lists a price as firm - the market will determine whether that price is firm or not. Wow...similar and a good vref.Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 I looked hard at that plane. Never made an offer but my conversation in the mid 120s was rejected immediately so I moved on. Add 70k for an engine- too much cash for that plane. No clue where it sold, but it was a big number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 hour ago, smccray said: I looked hard at that plane. Never made an offer but my conversation in the mid 120s was rejected immediately so I moved on. Add 70k for an engine- too much cash for that plane. No clue where it sold, but it was a big number. Well you found out 125 k was never going to buy high time ,AdsB ,some glass ,TKS Bravo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 hour ago, smccray said: I looked hard at that plane. Never made an offer but my conversation in the mid 120s was rejected immediately so I moved on. Add 70k for an engine- too much cash for that plane. No clue where it sold, but it was a big number. Was that while the owner had it for sale or while AAA did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 Long bodies.... Strong economy... expanding stock markets... 150amu or more, seems to be the opening price... with a mid time engine... 200amu when the engine is recently OH’d Then add the cost of fancy GTNs and G500s... Start creeping towards 300amu... Three premium additions... O2, AC, TKS... Add quite a few more AMUs for each... Partnerships are a challenge... the expenses and wear continue every month, no matter how much you are going to fly... or not fly... Great to have a partner that doesn’t fly very much... and still pays the bills... Ownership strategies...? Things to consider while looking at this partnership... They all know each other... go flying with them... see how you fit in? Not interested in fitting in? Partnership probably doesn’t work... Share an IFR flight, See if everything in the panel is working and how the partners work the machine... They have financed a lot, you like like to finance the least... Interest rates are going up, financing now makes the most sense... Joining this leveraged bird, can be an advantage... if things fall apart in the first year... your low capital is at risk... better than a lot of capital at risk... Really know what documents you are signing... What happens if you walk away... Joining a partnership can be arranged in many ways... a non-equity partner gets the monthly expense when he doesn’t own the bird... but, if you don’t fit into the partnership... you leave at the agreed upon time and say thank you... After a year of the partnership, you find you really like this powerful traveling machine with few competitors... formalize the partnership based on the latest updates, OH, and other additions.... or After a year of partnership... The Bravo is not as spectacular as you expected, and partnership isn’t working for you... leave the partnership with bills paid, and the smallest amount invested... If you end up with equity for some reason... Expect getting the equity back out may require somebody else buying into the partnership... I have only one partnership and a couple of minority owners... that is enough... (wife and two kids) Having the annual get finished is an interesting point to be buying in. What does the future look like... how do they expect to handle the expected... and the unexpected... who is going to decide on the OH? What if you don’t agree? really need to do your homework on this... I have seen many MS partnerships that really work well. If you fit into this partnership well, and the bird is spectacular as most Bravo owners feel about their machines... and the future finances are line with your expectations... Are you ready? PP thoughts about sharing an expensive bird only. It is unlikely that all the stars align... but if they do, price isn’t the most important part... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: Was that while the owner had it for sale or while AAA did? I talked to Jimmy about the plane. 2 hours ago, thinwing said: Well you found out 125 k was never going to buy high time ,AdsB ,some glass ,TKS Bravo At least not that airplane. I hope the seller got his number and the buyer is thrilled with his/her new bird. It only takes one person to buy the plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 8 hours ago, smccray said: At least not that airplane. I hope the seller got his number and the buyer is thrilled with his/her new bird. It only takes one person to buy the plane. Each airplane is different. Let's say N64HK sold in the 130's. Considering that $46,000 had just been spent on the panel and at the last annual it had new turbo, overhauled mags and overhauled alternators, only 450 hrs on overhauled prop, it sounds like the maintenance was up to date. @slowflyin purchased N64HK - maybe he can chime in and tell us how it's going after he bough it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 32 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: Each airplane is different. Let's say N64HK sold in the 130's. Considering that $46,000 had just been spent on the panel and at the last annual it had new turbo, overhauled mags and overhauled alternators, only 450 hrs on overhauled prop, it sounds like the maintenance was up to date. @slowflyin purchased N64HK - maybe he can chime in and tell us how it's going after he bough it Congrats to @slowflin on the new bird! That airplane had a lot going for it, but it had some down sides to- just like every airplane that is sold. Fantastic that the cost/benefit worked out for the new owner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowflyin Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 So far so good with 64HK. Oil analysis and burn rate are good and she flies smooth as silk. As always there have been a few squawks but nothing unexpected. In the shop this week to tweak the panel and install a JPI 900. I loved my F and thought it could never be replaced. Have to admit I had some buyers remorse. But after 25 or so hours in this bird I'm absolutely thrilled. I purchased this AC assuming I would need to overhaul the engine immediately. For now, I'll be flying it regular and monitoring oil consumption, JPI data, and oil analysis. If all looks good I'll let my CPA advise when it's time to pull the engine. If not, I'll do it right away. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 Good to hear about your experience...I think you have tremendous capability there for what an average supercub goes for!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 hour ago, slowflyin said: So far so good with 64HK. Oil analysis and burn rate are good and she flies smooth as silk. As always there have been a few squawks but nothing unexpected. In the shop this week to tweak the panel and install a JPI 900. I loved my F and thought it could never be replaced. Have to admit I had some buyers remorse. But after 25 or so hours in this bird I'm absolutely thrilled. I purchased this AC assuming I would need to overhaul the engine immediately. For now, I'll be flying it regular and monitoring oil consumption, JPI data, and oil analysis. If all looks good I'll let my CPA advise when it's time to pull the engine. If not, I'll do it right away. One other plus with N64HK is since it’s a ‘94 model at some point after ‘96 it got new cylinders with the Bravo upgrade so the cylinders don’t have 1900TT. Kudos on adding the JPI EDM900. Are you cutting a new panel or are they fitting it where the ship’s gauges were? When you get pictures please share - that upgrade is in my future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfonville Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 I looked at N64HK when I was shopping. But I ended up with a 1992 with an engine at 1890 hours. Well equipped avionics wise but need to do ADSB. I have put 80 hours on it since January and the oil analysis has come back better each time. The previous owner did not fly it but about 20 hrs a year for the last 4 years. I've had a few expenses like an exhaust section that needed repair and a mag failure. I'm hoping to get another 100 or so hours as the oil analysis last came back really good. I guess the first real annual will tell the story on what I own. Bought it at a price to install everything new firewall forward and still be OK. I'm owned two 1978 C models, a 77 J in the past. Love this airplane almost as much as the T210 I once owned. I like the size of the T210 better but love the Mooney speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 Nfon, which part of the exhaust needed replacement? The tube leading to the turbo? It has a tendency to get really thin because of the environment passing through it. Thin enough to poke a tool through it... Somebody shared an interesting pic of theirs around here one day... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) On 5/24/2018 at 9:18 AM, slowflyin said: So far so good with 64HK. Oil analysis and burn rate are good and she flies smooth as silk. As always there have been a few squawks but nothing unexpected. In the shop this week to tweak the panel and install a JPI 900. I loved my F and thought it could never be replaced. Have to admit I had some buyers remorse. But after 25 or so hours in this bird I'm absolutely thrilled. I purchased this AC assuming I would need to overhaul the engine immediately. For now, I'll be flying it regular and monitoring oil consumption, JPI data, and oil analysis. If all looks good I'll let my CPA advise when it's time to pull the engine. If not, I'll do it right away. Your CPA knows about aircraft engines? That’s a quite a coincidence! Edited June 26, 2018 by M016576 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 8 hours ago, M016576 said: Your CPA knows about aircraft engines? That’s a quite a coincidence! I'm a CPA, what does he have to do with when your engine needs an o/h. I would base it on the actual health of the engine your doing ongoing engine analysis and having your plane repaired and hopefully analyzed on a currently. Good luck with your awesome Bravo I've had mine since 2006 and love the Bravo, loved my two J models also. Ok I love all Mooneys. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boilermonkey Posted June 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2018 OP. I'm passing on this one. The M20C that I am currently a partner is slower and lacks TKS...but it is a known quantity. There are too many unknowns here. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfonville Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 10:18 PM, carusoam said: Nfon, which part of the exhaust needed replacement? The tube leading to the turbo? It has a tendency to get really thin because of the environment passing through it. Thin enough to poke a tool through it... Somebody shared an interesting pic of theirs around here one day... Best regards, -a- I had to replace the section next to the wastegate which was cracked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 9 hours ago, nfonville said: I had to replace the section next to the wastegate which was cracked. Make sure you keep the old one. Sending it off to an aircraft welder to have it repaired and keeping it as a spare is a good idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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