Jump to content

1/2 interest in an F or 100% C, that is the question


Recommended Posts

I’m considering two potential options for ownership. With about $30-35k to spend on ownership, there are a handful of decent looking M20C’s on the market. I also currently fly with a friend who has a 1970 F model. Here’s what my finances allow for:

1) 100% ownership in a C model

or

2) possible 50% ownership in the F I’m currently flying. 

I flew a 1967 C for about 6 months to keep the plane running for a friend with multiple planes. It was a great gig until he sold it. I wasn’t in a position to buy otherwise I would have.  My thoughts are the following on both options. I’m an IR pilot with about 550 hours. My flights are mostly just me, some angel flights and occasionally my wife and I on weekend trips. 200-400 mile trips max, mostly across Texas. This is my first time to own an airplane. The downside to the partnership is I know this won’t be my last airplane - the C’s I have my eye on don’t have any gear up/damage history. While the F has had 3 in it’s lifetime, even though the last one was 22 years ago. The F is professionally maintained by a knowledgable Mooney mechanic. It doesn’t have an autopilot and has a VFR only gps while the C’s I’m looking at have either an Ifr equipped gps or decent autopilot. Having both is preferable to me as I fly into imc conditions especially on angel flights. What pros and cons of the options do you see? I like the extra room of the F, I’m 6’2” and I can’t fit in the back seat of the C, so my passengers in the back will have to be small, however it’s not very often that I need that extra space right now. If I bought a C, I’d eventually try to install the new garmin autopilot 500 or perhaps an STEC 55x or maybe 60-2, which ever will be cheaper. 

Also the planes I’ve seen on the market with multiple damage history reports largely don’t get sold. Not that I’m a sales pro, but I’ve followed the listings for the last few years while I rent, and there are planes that have continued to occupy listing space for years. I’d hate to buy into a plane that I couldn’t sell to move up and that’s what I think would happen with the F. Is that concern valid? Thanks for the opinions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your budget sounds tight for single owner. Remember the fixed costs of hangar, insurance and annual inspection will be double if it's only you.

I would not worry about old gear ups. People who are holding out for pristine vintage Mooneys also believe in the tooth fairy.

OTOH, the F is not well equipped for your flying. Will your infusion of cash spring for some needed upgrades like an autopilot and a modern GPS? How about ADS-B?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd wager it's not damage history that keeps planes from selling. More likely they've got antique panels, no autopilot, runout engine, or sitting for a long time. Any of those conditions, if not priced accordingly, will keep a plane from selling.  I've owned two Mooneys with 6 gear-up's between them. I'd never be afraid of damage properly repaired.

I'm in agreement with @Bob_Belville that your budget is a bit tight for Mooney ownership. You might talk to @Raptor05121 about it. There are quite a number of members here who bought $35K Mooneys and really wish they hadn't. Just be careful.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I’d rather own all of a C than half of a F. It sounds like, Angel Flights possibly withstanding, either will meet your needs. Let condition and equipage for your mission requirements be your guide. 

Don’t sweat damage history as long as it wasn’t too gnarly and it has been properly repaired.

Oh, and please keep whatever model Mooney you buy hangared. It is money well spent unless you live in a really high cost area, in which case I’d recommend buying another make of aircraft whose structure includes less steel and suffers from fewer corrosion issues.  

Good luck, and be sure to post pictures of whatever you decide to buy. 

Jim

+1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tx_Aggie said:

Yeah I thought about limiting my search for aircraft that already had atleast a waas gps and an autopilot. I’ll probably have to save a little more and increase my budget for a plane with those already included. 

Hmm, it's not nearly so much about the initial cost of the plane.

What is your budget for actually FLYING whatever you buy?  And, to that point, buying at the low end is going to increase your chances to spend more to keep it flying AFTER the initial purchase.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When it comes to flying, there's nothing like having your own bird, always at your disposal.

When it comes time to pay for things, there's nothing like having someone to split it with...

Personally, I'd want an F over a C. I used to have an E, which was a smidge more fun to fly, but the F is way more practical; actually usable rear seat, an extra 12 gallons of range (and "tabs" that are almost as much as the E was, full fuel), more usable load, bigger cargo area... But again, when it's "all yours," that changes the calculus somewhat.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A good partner can be your best investment.  I once owned a J-3 with a guy who really only wanted to polish and restore the Cub while I only wanted to fly it.  We got along great.  :lol:

We'd still be partners but his wife divorced him and forced a sale.  <_<

  • Like 4
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Tx_Aggie said:

Have anyone of you installed an autopilot recently? I realize the costs of the units but how much is it to install all in for something like an STEC 55x?

Installed, at least 23-25k?         http://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/system-55x    just the unit alone

I don't think anyone would install a new STEC 55X now, with a lot of other options out there, like the STEC 3100 (http://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/stec-3100-autopilot)  or the lesser priced STECs, TRIOS, Garmins, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like anything else there are pluses and minuses to every decision and move we make.

It is nice to have your own plane.  Right now when the owner wants to fly the F he goes and you wait.  Maybe this is not a big deal but it could be especially if both of you want to fly the plane on the same holiday weekend to go visit family in different cities.

However like someone mentioned above your infusion of cash into the F could get a nice panel to fly behind if the current owner is willing.  Work out the logistics of co-ownership before you put down the cash.

I went from not owning a plane to owning one outright since me and a buddy of mine could never get together on me using or buying into his plane.  No hard feelings it just didn't work out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Figure out what your monthly budget for flying will be. As some have noted above, hangar, insurance, fuel, etc. are outside of your initial purchase cost. Then there are reserve funds for annuals, engine maintenance, avionics subscriptions, and other items (prop, biscuits,...) which need replacing/repair over time.

There is nothing I can imagine to be more painful than to have a plane you own sitting on the ground because you do not have the funds to fly it on a regular basis.

And the funds you have for purchase do include a PPI from a Mooney-knowledgeable mechanic, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a partnership works well for some people. It really depends on the philosophical mindset of the partners. If the partners are like minded about maintenance and have a solid agreement on scheduling, it works.

For me, a partner would never work. I am too nit picky on maintenance and I fly too much that scheduling would be an issue.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I started out trying to find a partnership to buy into. I was surprised not to find any. So with a budget of $50K I thought I'll buy the airplane and then find a partner to sell half of it to. But with the initial excitement of ownership, I forgot all about looking for a partner. Six months later I'd put 100 hours on the plane and realized I could afford it without a partner and was really flying too much to have a partner. 

Now I'm thinking of selling a piece of my 252 again. But only if I can trade a piece of my 252 for a piece of something really interesting... like a Baron.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m well aware of the monthly maintenance and expenses in my region for hangar/insurance/fuel/ gps subscription etc. My purchase price was based on the C I flew that sold as well as others in similar shape that are currently listed. 35k is what I’m willing to pay for the purchase price and isn’t all I have for monthly expenses. Not sure where some of the responders are getting that information. The enticement towards the C and F are the efficiency in the 4 cylinder engine. If my purchase budget was more I’d consider a bird more capable of 170-180 KTAS and UL over 1000 lbs. thanks for the concern however. 

 

I didnt realize the install if an autopilot was so steep however. Almost the 75% of the price of a C. Yikes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Tx_Aggie said:

I didnt realize the install if an autopilot was so steep however. Almost the 75% of the price of a C. Yikes. 

That's why you shouldn't buy a C that doesn't come with an autopilot. The difference in asking price between one with and one without (all other things being equal) will be $5K - $7K.

$35K without autopilot
$40K with an autopilot

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m well aware of the monthly maintenance and expenses in my region for hangar/insurance/fuel/ gps subscription etc. My purchase price was based on the C I flew that sold as well as others in similar shape that are currently listed. 35k is what I’m willing to pay for the purchase price and isn’t all I have for monthly expenses. Not sure where some of the responders are getting that information. The enticement towards the C and F are the efficiency in the 4 cylinder engine. If my purchase budget was more I’d consider a bird more capable of 170-180 KTAS and UL over 1000 lbs. thanks for the concern however. 
 
I didnt realize the install if an autopilot was so steep however. Almost the 75% of the price of a C. Yikes. 


I think the reason people came up with that impression is that $35k doesn’t buy a lot of a Mooney. As you also pointed out, you are IFR rated. Would you be happy owning a plane outright that has limited capability? If so, then that becomes a positive factor for self ownership. Otherwise, if you are not willing to save for the plane equipped for your flying, then the partnership makes sense.

Have you come up with what you expect all of those costs will add up to? The reason I ask is that whether it is a $35k C model or the $70k F model, the costs will be comparable. So, if you can swing the operating costs of a better equipped plane, wouldn’t it make more sense to save up for the better equipped plane if you aren’t willing to buy into a partnership?

The exception to the above statement is whether or not you plan on hanging onto the plane for a while or don’t have a care if you lose money on the future sale of your modified plane.

I’m a long time owner (27 years). I started out with a solid F that had limited capabilities (busted PC system, no GPS) and added to it over the years. Those additions/modifications will never be recovered but since I don’t intend on selling, I am fine with that. If I were in the market today, I would hold out for a plane that has what I want and buy as much airplane as I could that would get me there.

What you are going to find is that many vintage planes are in various states. Often you will find a plane that has a great paint job, good interior and lousy avionics. There will be a few with decent avionics but need paint and/or interiors. And even fewer that have everything done.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

I can’t have a partner. If you are like me and replace or overhaul stuff just because it’s tuesday then it’s a no go with a partner. 

A non equity partner is the way to go in a situation like that. You own the airplane and retain complete control over the maintenance, upgrades, etc. The non-equity partner pays 50% of the yearly expenses plus their fuel and a small hourly amount.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never underestimate halving the housing and feeding expenses.  I'd have done the partnership in a heartbeat even though I didn't want an F so long as the other guys is 1) committed to maintaining the aircraft and 2) isn't a tool.  I could have gotten into a 3 way partnership in a G, but the aircraft was a mess and the owners appeared content to allow it to stay that way.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where is Piloto to calculate how many round trip tickets you can buy instead of buying a plane.  But, in all seriousness it is all about budget vs control as everyone has said.  I was in a partnership with the C and now solo on the F.  I prefer sole, but my upgrades are slower than I would like them to be.

Edited by wcb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.