A&P payment

[FastTex]

Should we pay the mechanic after a test flight or before the airplane leaves the shop? My mechanic is insisting to get paid first. I have already put 20% down...

Appreciate the feedback!

 

[gsxrpilot]

If I'm the mechanic, and don't know you or have any relationship with you, and you're doing the test flight... then yeah, pay the bill first. 20% didn't even cover the parts costs.

If I'm the airplane owner... which I am... I'll take it upon myself to build a relationship with the shop. And to ensure that I treat the shop in a way that makes me their best customer. This, over time, pays dividends you can't even imagine. I believe a close relationship with a good shop built on mutual trust is one of the most important requirements for successful airplane ownership. And that's on me, the owner to cultivate.

[DAVIDWH]

Interesting,

My A&P has never considered asking for front money and we have been through an engine off, crate and ship for overhaul,  then reinstall,  a 310 HP STP upgrade along with various annuals et.

As far as a test flight before payment, he just jumps in the right seat and says "Lets go" with no mention of $$$.

Pretty much the same goes for my plumber, electrician and BMW mechanic. Never been asked for payment $$ before turning on the water, tipping a light sw. or a test drive  after front end work is completed.

In my opinion, you lost any bargaining power when you fronted the 20%.

Or, as Forest Gump's mama  might say , "aircraft ownership is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get".

As a side note, when bill is received, I always pay same day received.

Best,

 

[Guest]

Your maintainer is not a banker, if the job is complete and he requires payment, pay him.  He is taking just as big a risk that your check is rubber as you are taking on the test flight.

Clarence

[AGL Aviation]

Should we pay the mechanic after a test flight or before the airplane leaves the shop? My mechanic is insisting to get paid first. I have already put 20% down...
Appreciate the feedback!
 

We ask the customer to pay after the test flight. The biggest reason for that is to make sure the plane is fixed. Any other time, payment is due when we issue the invoice. We have a handful of customers that pay their invoice immediately, others a week or so. We have a small shop with a very reasonable shop rate. We charge less than the average car garage in the area. When a garage finishes your vehicle, unless otherwise arranged payment is due before you drive off. I think aircraft maintenance should be treated the same. Perhaps your mechanic can't afford it any other way? Sometimes, in our shop cash flow can be a little bit of a problem (we're not financially backed from other sources) if we don't keep a close eye on it. We're very open with our customers though, everyone to this point has been very understanding.


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[PTK]

3 hours ago, FastTex said:

Should we pay the mechanic after a test flight or before the airplane leaves the shop? My mechanic is insisting to get paid first. I have already put 20% down...

Appreciate the feedback!

 

The airplane going for a test flight is still "in the shop." You should absolutely pay your mechanic in full before the airplane is released to you. Why would you even question it?

[1964-M20E]

Several things:

1. Are you and the A&P based on he same field?
2. Have been working with the A&P for some time?
3. Have you always paid him on time and quickly?
4. If the answers to all of the above are yes there should be no problem paying him either way.

If you are at another field and he doesn't know you from Adam and has done an extensive amount of work for you I can see his point maybe he has gotten burned in the past by a less than ethical owner / pilot before.  In this case I can see asking for a deposit on the work.

I have been at other airports where I didn't know the A&P who did work for me I flew off he sent me the bill later and it was paid.  I have even done fuel this way because of some issue with the card reader at the pump or FBO.

Tell the shop owner to hop in for the test flight.  He should be willing and have the confidence that everything has been done right.

I have even in the past even paid the A&P more than he/she was invoicing because I felt it was worth more and other times I paid the invoice fully and felt somewhat short changed.  I have even paid the A&P when I was told no charge because his knowledge, oversight, and signature are worth something.  I did all the work under supervision and all he did was final inspection and log book sign off.  I get paid for my knowledge, oversight, and signature at work as well.

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

There's an old slogan that applies to most small businesses - "there's one thing worse than not getting the sale: getting the sale and not getting paid." A business that makes a small margin of say 10% must do $10,000 worth of business to offset getting stiffed for $1000. If a mechanic asks to be paid before the plane leaves his shop it probably means he's been made to write off or to wait weeks for payment for work done. 

If the shop has my plane ready to go before the invoice is ready and the shop allows me to take the plane I want to honor the trust by paying promptly upon receipt. 

I'm not sure why we would think that payment should not be expected. The Chrysler dealer's shop gives the car key to the office along with the bill - pay the bill, get the key. The dentist receptionist has a big sign indicating the payment is required upon receipt of services. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

If he has the bill ready, the work done and logs signed give him a check right then unless you previously agreed to other terms.  

Heck, just accepting your check is an act of faith on his part.   

If I were the A&P and I thought you might be a dubious credit risk I would want a wire transfer before delivery. 

 

FWIW:  I have an A&P “on retainer” and I send him payment in advance automatically every month for 5 hours of his work.  Any part purchases go on my CC.  If he over-runs that minimum of hours I pay from his invoice.  If he doesn’t use it all one month it rolls over.  But there’s no problem spending 5 hours of maintenance a month—it’s an airplane!

 

[steingar]

The guy doing (and mostly bolluxing) the avionics on my Mooney has been stand-up.  He wants to fix the thing, I'll give him that.  I tried outplay him when I first picked it up even though I knew it was hinky.  Funny thing is the damn payment never went through.  I'll have my bank cut the guy a cashier's check when he finally gets it right.

[Htwjr]

As long as a shop has possession of a vehicle they have a lien for the repairs.  Once they release it then they do not have that lien status and if they don't get paid all they have is a lawsuit.  Some refer to it as a mechanic's lien although a mechanics lien deals with improvements to real property.  For work on a vehicle it is an artisans lien and it takes priority over even a financing lien.  I think he could fly with you for a test flight without surrendering possession.

[ArtVandelay]

I am amazed you guys still write checks?

I’ve been asked to pay for parts up front, and have no problem doing that. Generally pay immediately when job is complete (small jobs cash, else credit card). If you use a CC, you can always dispute.

[Skates97]

As other's have said it comes down to the mechanic and you. I've been fortunate to have some good ones on the small field where I am that I work with. My AP/IA that has signed off on work I have done I have paid when he signed.

The other AP/IA that has done work on it just puts the plane back in my hangar along with the keys and an invoice on the front seat. (He has the code to get in and out of my hangar, I figure if I am trusting him with keeping me in the air I should be able to trust him to leave everything in my hangar alone). I will drop a check off to him the next time I am at the airport, often on my way to take the plane for a test flight. I'm not worried about something being wrong and having to pay again to fix it because if there has been follow-up related work a simple phone call and he gets my plane from the hangar, corrects anything that needs to be done, and puts it back.

When I first got my plane on the second or third flight the MP stopped working. Turned out that the line had broken off right by the engine. I walked around the airport meeting new folks and looking for someone that could flare the end of it. (My other AP/IA couldn't find his tool to do it and although Aircraft Spruce is less than a mile away buying the tool was a last resort). I ended up at the hangar of an AP/IA who had never met me before, took a look at it, flared it, and sent me on my way refusing any kind of payment. I knew then I would be doing future business with him and he has put in the EDM830, replaced my generator, and a few other things along the way.

As Paul said above, a lot comes down to the relationship with the mechanic.

8 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

I am amazed you guys still write checks?

I’ve been asked to pay for parts up front, and have no problem doing that. Generally pay immediately when job is complete (small jobs cash, else credit card). If you use a CC, you can always dispute.

I write checks as little as possible, everything goes on my Visa/Amex and paid off each month (or bill pay online that sends a check for me). My AP/IA doesn't like to take CC because of the fees associated with them. I could pay him through bill pay but I like to drop off the check and thank him.

[Ron McBride]

Take the mechanic for a ride, if you find a problem, you can show it to him, instead of trying to tell him what is wrong.  Most of the time, the shop may have the books done, but not the invoice.   If you before the test flight, he will just add more for the problem, or??

[Guest]

As an older wise client of mine told me “short bills make for a long friendship”. 

Clarence

[jaylw314]

47 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I write checks as little as possible, everything goes on my Visa/Amex and paid off each month (or bill pay online that sends a check for me). My AP/IA doesn't like to take CC because of the fees associated with them. I could pay him through bill pay but I like to drop off the check and thank him.

My IA does take credit cards but charges 3% more.  I think that is worthwhile for the convenience and comfort that gives both of us.

[RobertGary1]

I always buy the parts myself so my IA isn't out any money. I also maintain a healthy inventory myself of basic FAA nuts, bolts and common small parts. After I finish the job he inspects and we sign everything off and he'll say "How does $XX sound?". And I say "You can say more". Then I write him a check. Same basic relationship I've had with a few IA's over the decades.

 

-Robert

Edited May 17, 2018 by RobertGary1

[rpcc]

The first question you should be asking is why you hired someone you don't trust enough to pay for the work performed on their terms.

If you have any doubts he'll stand behind his work than you are at the wrong shop.  

If he's a good guy that stands behind his work I bet this will be the last work he performs for you.   Is that what you want?

where do I find the shaking my head emoji?

 

 

[Hank]

My previous mechanic sent bills whenever he got around to it, could be six months later. I always paid on my next visit to the airport, usually the next weekend. After moving, I pay the new guy whenever he gives me the bill, usually when we are through working. This year after annual, I invited him on the test flight--he sounded surprised but happy, and off we went. Everything worked, we both had fun and flew for 0.6 instead of just a lap or two around the pattern. Back on the ground, he packed his tools while I wrote a check.

If your A&P/IA presents a bill and asks for payment, then pay the man. Especially if he had to order a lot of parts for you.

When I had my pitot static test done by someone new, and they had to patch leaks and redo the altimeter and VSI, it was a week and a half before I could pick the plane up. By that time, he had emailed the invoice, received and deposited my check. Next time, he won't worry about me.

[skydvrboy]

My AI asked for a partial payment for parts once they got over $4,000, but not labor.  I thought that was very reasonable.  If he had asked for labor to be paid for before the job was complete, I would have found that a bit suspicious, but probably not questioned it.

[Oldguy]

I pay my mechanic and avionics guy as soon as I get the amount due or invoice from them, but they are both at my airport. While the mechanic does not take credit cards, the avionics guy will, but charges 3% like someone above mentioned. As a result of the way we work together, I can usually get small jobs done in a day as they both know they will be paid immediately upon completion. And they also get a bag of Colombian coffee from me at Christmas - sucking up never hurts.

If this is the first time working with this mechanic, there probably should have been a discussion before starting the work on payment timing and method. If there was a written quote (there was one, wasn't there?), it would normally include payment terms.

Whatever the outcome of your interaction with him, you will hopefully have gained some valuable insight for the next time you have him or any other mechanic do work for you.

[RobertGary1]

If I were working with a big shop I'd be a bit more worried. Even prepaying for parts. How often has a shop gone under after the customer paid for parts that they never installed or maybe never ordered. At that point you're down the list of creditors. Even the big avionics shops with expensive parts don't ask for all parts money up front, if you don't want the GTX345 they can send it back or install it elsewhere I suppose. 

-Robert