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Weekend commercial pilot courses


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I’ve decided to get my commercial license and it was suggested that the easiest way to do it would be one of these weekend courses that do the checkride at the end. I would rather not use my Mooney for this and I noticed there are a few programs where you basically walk in withe the written test done and then walk out a few days later with the commercial license. Just wondering if anyone had had any experiences they would be willing to share with any of these courses. I actually thought it might be fun to do it in a 172 since I haven’t flown one in over 15 years!

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7 hours ago, teejayevans said:

FAA just change the rules, you no longer need to use a complex plane, ie you can use a 172 for all of it.

I recently got my HP endorsement in an old 182.  It took me awhile to get used to it (half of the flight). I’m pretty sure I could fly my Mooney more precisely. What would be the advantage of using a rental 172?  I have not looked at the required maneuvers yet.

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1 hour ago, MIm20c said:

I recently got my HP endorsement in an old 182.  It took me awhile to get used to it (half of the flight). I’m pretty sure I could fly my Mooney more precisely. What would be the advantage of using a rental 172?  I have not looked at the required maneuvers yet.

Seemed like it would be cheap and avoid wear and tear on my airplane. Also, I think it’s fun to fly different planes every once in a while. 

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1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

Seemed like it would be cheap and avoid wear and tear on my airplane. Also, I think it’s fun to fly different planes every once in a while. 

Not to mention that the 172 are well known to every CFI, if I was using a Mooney I’d want a Mooney knowledgeable CFI.

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Personally I have a problem with commercial, I think it should have more emphasis on cross country trips,planning and all that entails.  Right now the requirement is a 300 nm  solo, I would make it 1500nm.  Multiple days, more weather planning, etc...I would require night flight over 300nm, land at least 1 class B/C airport, more realistic to what common commercial pilots do.

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One would have to balance the pros and cons of using your own plane...

Pro... really getting to know your plane measurably better...

Con... really getting to know a C172 measurably better...

 

If you haven’t flown a C172 in years, and have no plan of doing so for a few more years... why throw part of the skills you just earned..?

Would you want to apply these skills while flying your Mooney?

 

Either is a great way to gain some skill, one is going to be better than the other...

 

Mooney specific instructor would be great.  Best for your plane...

Weekend short course would be great.

Weekend short course with a Mooney specific instructor in your plane would be spectacular..! :)

 

PP thoughts, not a CLP or CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

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I just learned something today - the aim point bars and centerline stripes being different lengths 150ft vs  120ft. I always thought they were 200ft (nope that includes the blank space) and visually never picked up the difference between the bar length and the stripe length. 

So now all my spot landings that I thought I messed up would have passed. ;-)

I am simultaneously a better and worse commercial pilot wannabe today. 

I kind of agree with @teejayevans that there should be additional emphasis on Weather flying beyond the truly basic and occasionally useful recitation of the PPL curriculum. Performance exploring the flight envelope and stick and rudder fine but I’d want to get tested in judgement and decision making - including recognizing and responding to external pressures - both things that are much harder to test than do you know what holding out means and can you recite the AMSAFE acronym. I wonder if CPL would be better accomplished in a SIM with a bunch of scenario based testing that you couldn’t / wouldn’t test in real life (like ATP / what you airline pilots do in your recurrents).   

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When I first bought my Ovation I started working on my commercial license as a way to get to know the plane. I tried doing it with two very well regarded local instructors and the results were very disappointing. The instrument part went well, but neither one really knew how to fly my Mooney. As someone else pointed out, pretty much any CFI can fly and teach in a 172. The way my schedule works, it is much easier to get 4 days off to do the whole thing at once than to try to do it a little at a time.

 

Besides, I may go to Hawaii sometime and want to rent a 172 so it wouldn’t be a bad idea to know how to fly one!

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There are some maneuvers in the CPL practical that are useful, and some not so much.  The 8’s on pylons, chandelle, and Lazy 8’s are things you will never do again.  They might give youy better familiarity with the aircraft, but in regimes of flight you will likely never visit again.  The power off 180 and steep spiral are things that I think we should learn right out of the box, in PPL.  If you ever have an engine problem and have to get down safely, they are well worth learning.  I agree on the comment about spending more time on cross country planning, although I don’t think a multi-day 1500 nm would be the way to do it.  What’s really missing from any FAA test or teaching regime is how to really fly in the system, how to use and negotiate with ATC, long range weather issues, deviations for weather (I mean the big ones, not a simple duck left for a cloud).  Those things just are not taught, you learn them on the go.

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A long time ago, I went to a weekend course to get my multi-engine private and instrument add-ons.  Last year, I added my single-engine Commercial to my multi-engine ATP rating.  I used a semi-local flight school, and it took me about a dozen flights to finish it.  Since it had been so long since I went through VFR-type training, I felt it was a GREAT refresher!  I have routinely trained in instrument operations for decades, but practicing the VFR maneuvers has increased my skills more than I thought it could.  I doubt I would feel that way if I had got my SE COMM through a short course.

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4 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I can only assume that you realize that these were add-on ratings, and that Ah-1 Cobra Pilot is in all likelihood a military trained aviator who was already a Commercial Instrument Helicopter pilot?  From the finest helicopter training school in the world?

It was directed more toward the OP

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10 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Weekend to get your commercial or instrument rating...?  sounds like a great idea, what could possibly go wrong.

 

Seems like you’re trying to be obnoxious instead of helpful.  You have succeded.

I assume you base your desire to do this on your intricate knowledge of my personal situation and your vastly superior judgement and life experience? Or your personal experience with any of these courses or people who have attended them? 

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I did my commercial in my own Mooney.  I felt like it was a really good learning experience improving my skills and learning the ins and outs of the airplane I am always flying.  Commercial maneuvers are not particularly hard on the airplane like primary training is, so its not a big deal.

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27 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

I did my commercial in my own Mooney.  I felt like it was a really good learning experience improving my skills and learning the ins and outs of the airplane I am always flying.  Commercial maneuvers are not particularly hard on the airplane like primary training is, so its not a big deal.

One of the required Commercial maneuvers is the Power-Off 180o.  I was always told that was a bad thing to do to turbocharged engines.(?)

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27 minutes ago, Ah-1 Cobra Pilot said:

One of the required Commercial maneuvers is the Power-Off 180o.  I was always told that was a bad thing to do to turbocharged engines.(?)

I remember.   I wasn't landing hard.  Same as usual.  Actually I found that one maneuver the hardest to learn to get the timing right.  Early on either I was coming up short and I would just go around late, or, I had too much energy and I was not landing on the spotted site within spec - but still landing softly.   That was the hard part is not just landing nicely but landing exactly on the spot you choose, within commercial spec.  Still its not hard on the plane.

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35 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Actually I found that one maneuver the hardest to learn to get the timing right.  Early on either I was coming up short and I would just go around late, or, I had too much energy and I was not landing on the spotted site within spec - but still landing softly.   That was the hard part is not just landing nicely but landing exactly on the spot you choose, within commercial spec.

I started training in a Piper Arrow.  The Power-Off 180os were easy; pull power, count to three, and start your turn.  I finished training in a C-172, which I had a hell of a hard time getting right.  Hitting a 200' touch down spot is not all that easy without practicing it...lots.  I have never tried in my Mooney, because I do not want to cut the power so abruptly.

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4 hours ago, Ah-1 Cobra Pilot said:

I started training in a Piper Arrow.  The Power-Off 180os were easy; pull power, count to three, and start your turn.  I finished training in a C-172, which I had a hell of a hard time getting right.  Hitting a 200' touch down spot is not all that easy without practicing it...lots.  I have never tried in my Mooney, because I do not want to cut the power so abruptly.

It took me a heck of a lot of practice to consistently make the 200’ you have down spec in my Mooney.

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I started off working on the commercial maneuvers in my plane. I think both the chandelles and power off 180 have the potential to be hard on a plane.  --After 3 training flights, I decided to finish it with an "accelerated" class because of scheduling issues and I felt I was beating up the turbo engine on my plane and the power off 180 was a bit hard to judge in the 200 ft standard.  I ended up finishing in a Piper Lance.  It glides like a brick and the power off 180 was super easy to hit every time.    Power off, count to 3, arc to runway. The landing gear was very stout and would make up for a less than perfect landing.

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On 4/27/2018 at 2:41 PM, teejayevans said:

Personally I have a problem with commercial, I think it should have more emphasis on cross country trips,planning and all that entails.  Right now the requirement is a 300 nm  solo, I would make it 1500nm.  Multiple days, more weather planning, etc...I would require night flight over 300nm, land at least 1 class B/C airport, more realistic to what common commercial pilots do.

I had to laugh. Most of the complaints I see on the commercial requirements are, "why should I have to fly such a long flight solo. It's a waste of time."

The actual source of the base requirements is ICAO. The commercial 300 NM solo cross country used to be a student pilot solo to qualify for the private certificate.

While the experience would certainly be valuable, I don't have a problem either way and would personally not like your increased regulatory costs passed onto career-oriented pilots eating Ramen.  Besides, like most FAA pilot certificate qualifications and currency requirements, it's a bare minimum "license to learn."  The real world of commercial flying is filled with both FAA and non-FAA requirements well beyond what the base commercial certificate requires. Pretty much anything commercial which does not involve (1) flying yourself (no passengers or cargo; pipeline duty) or (2) a local flight (photographer platform, local tours) requires much higher qualifications.

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