ragedracer1977 Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 I've been with Starr insurance. When I bought my Mooney I had under 5 hours complex time. About 80tt. Zero in a Mooney. My annual premium was ~$1500. Now, I'm instrument rated. Nearly 300tt. Almost 200hrs complex/mooney time. Starr decided my rate should be ~$2100. That was a shock, to see it go up so much, not at all what I expected. I got another quote from Global Aerospace, and bound a policy with them. $915 for the year. And a much much more liberal open pilot policy, with all the other coverages being identical. I guess Starr doesn't want to write mooney policies this year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 I can confirm your rates as I’m in the exact same bracket. Had Starr last year for the same amount, was a 80ish hr pilot (from almost 15 years ago), and I’m currently renewing with Global. Only difference is weather, family, and work got in the way the past four months and I’m just short of my instrument and less than 150 hrs added this year. The cost for my laziness? An extra $200 it looks like. I’m concerned for others trying to get a first time policy like we did. Starr was the only underwriter that was covering newer pilots and they also bumped my renewal up to $2100 ish. Guess I’m glad I got “in” when I did but fear others with my history will be spending another 1 amu to get in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 My insurance is with Falcon (their USAA division) and the first year was underwritten by Starr. I was at similar numbers to you and it was roughly $1,500. When I went for renewal they had it underwritten by Global Aerospace. I don't have an IR but put on about 140 hours in the Mooney that first year. The renewal came in at $1005. They didn't tell me what Starr was quoting, just that Global provided the best rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 Mine went up $200... but I didn't manage to make 100 Mooney hours and I broke the plane. So not nearly as bad as I was expecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 Keep in mind that when discussing premium figures you need to state what liability limits are selected and if the limits are smooth or not as well as what the hull limits are. Without those variables, and pilot times, it is tough to compare apples to apples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) 1mm smooth. 51k hull ground and motion. $0 deductible Edited April 20, 2018 by ragedracer1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 Only thing available for me within reason is the common 1M/100k policy. Don’t think many underwriters are doing smooth policies for low time pilots. I still need to check on the info I received on this forum that the 100k limit is only for passengers inside the plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said: 1mm smooth. 51k hull ground and motion. $0 deductible You must have requested the smooth? I would be surprised that they gave you that rate as a low time pilot. I’d check the policy again. If true that’s a great rate and it looks like the extra 50 hrs and IR could have saved me another $500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, MIm20c said: You must have requested the smooth? I would be surprised that they gave you that rate as a low time pilot. I’d check the policy again. If true that’s a great rate and it looks like the extra 50 hrs and IR could have saved me another $500. From what I understand it is tough to get smooth liability limits for reasonable rates without an instrument rating. If I am not mistaken some carriers will not even underwrite it without the IR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpilot Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 Premiums from most underwriters took a sharp increase a few weeks ago, after years of soft market rates. When I asked AOPAIA about that at SnF last week, they mentioned that Global was the only major underwriter that hadn't yet ramped up rates. That may be part of the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted April 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 hour ago, MIm20c said: You must have requested the smooth? I would be surprised that they gave you that rate as a low time pilot. I’d check the policy again. If true that’s a great rate and it looks like the extra 50 hrs and IR could have saved me another $500. You're right. It's not smooth. The layout of the quote made me skip over the 100k per passenger limit. On the starr side it's all on one line, on the global its on a separate line. I did catch one other difference. Global doesn't cover flights to the Caribbean while starr does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Bravoman said: Keep in mind that when discussing premium figures you need to state what liability limits are selected and if the limits are smooth or not as well as what the hull limits are. Without those variables, and pilot times, it is tough to compare apples to apples. Very true, I was just comparing that it was similar that Global came in much lower on this renewal when my original Starr was the best quote. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigers2007 Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 Well this is obnoxious if Global decides to raise theirs too. Maybe it’s time to quote non-flying insurance instead now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 Just received a quote from Falcon today, 400 and change cheaper than STAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 1 minute ago, RLCarter said: Just received a quote from Falcon today, 400 and change cheaper than STAR Who was the underwriter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Skates97 said: Who was the underwriter? Global Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cease Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 11 hours ago, MIm20c said: Only thing available for me within reason is the common 1M/100k policy. Don’t think many underwriters are doing smooth policies for low time pilots. I still need to check on the info I received on this forum that the 100k limit is only for passengers inside the plane. We ran into the same issue with potential partners in a co-ownership we were trying to get set-up. There was a low limit in how much liability could be purchased and those of us with an instrument rating, 1,000+ hrs and financial assets wanted more coverage. We couldn't get a split policy, just all or nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 This is why your broker should always price the entire market each renewal. Companies shift focus all the time. Global Aerospace used to be very high but would insure difficult pilots (i.e. student pilots, etc). But recently they decided they wanted in the higher time pilot market. So they move in and then someone else decides the ocean is too bloody and they move somewhere more blue. Its a constantly shifting market. -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted April 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 10 hours ago, RobertGary1 said: This is why your broker should always price the entire market each renewal. Companies shift focus all the time. Global Aerospace used to be very high but would insure difficult pilots (i.e. student pilots, etc). But recently they decided they wanted in the higher time pilot market. So they move in and then someone else decides the ocean is too bloody and they move somewhere more blue. Its a constantly shifting market. -Robert The broker told me many Mooney and Grumman owners are moving from Starr to Global this year. Starr apparently took a beating on those 2 makes last year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 I left starr 5 years ago for the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vance.k Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 I renewed 3/10 and switched from Starr to XL. 2017 - Starr - $2575: $120k hull / $1m/100k subs - New pilot w/ ~80 hours, 0 complex, 0 Mooney (required 5 hrs transition + 5 solo) 2018 - XL - $2,200: $120k hull / $1M smooth - ~250 hours w/ 160 Mooney time. I pushed really hard for a smooth policy and made that my number one ask for my broker. I had also been told an IR was required and it was my goal, but lost 2 months due to an AOG issue, so didn't get it done in time. XL was the only carrier that offered a smooth policy. BTW, did my IR checkride today, woot! On to commercial.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 5 hours ago, vance.k said: I renewed 3/10 and switched from Starr to XL. 2017 - Starr - $2575: $120k hull / $1m/100k subs - New pilot w/ ~80 hours, 0 complex, 0 Mooney (required 5 hrs transition + 5 solo) 2018 - XL - $2,200: $120k hull / $1M smooth - ~250 hours w/ 160 Mooney time. I pushed really hard for a smooth policy and made that my number one ask for my broker. I had also been told an IR was required and it was my goal, but lost 2 months due to an AOG issue, so didn't get it done in time. XL was the only carrier that offered a smooth policy. BTW, did my IR checkride today, woot! On to commercial.. Congrats on the IR...... And it does get you about 20% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 Congratulations on the IR @vance.k and if you contact XL with the good news I am interested with a follow up on how much it impacted your rate. I have a friend who bought an early J model while still working on his PP in a Piper. He stayed with the Piper because he was almost done and just completed his checkride this week and will begin transition. He told me his initial rate was over $3,000 and if I'm not mistaken almost $3,500 but I don't know how much coverage he got. His underwriter required 10hrs dual and 15hrs solo prior to passengers. I was shocked at that rate, but I guess the insurance company had to assume he was flying the Mooney solo prior to completion of the PP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLRDMD Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 For $125k hull value, last year's premium was $2,130, this year's renewal was $1,560. I'm a high time Mooney pilot with a few certificates and ratings so the premium is based on my partner's time and ratings but he's around a 300-400 hour instrument rated pilot with probably 200 Mooney hours. USAIG but more importantly I have a PHENOMENAL broker. Wendy Wenk <wendy@wenkaviation.com>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 42 minutes ago, KLRDMD said: For $125k hull value, last year's premium was $2,130, this year's renewal was $1,560. I'm a high time Mooney pilot with a few certificates and ratings so the premium is based on my partner's time and ratings but he's around a 300-400 hour instrument rated pilot with probably 200 Mooney hours. USAIG but more importantly I have a PHENOMENAL broker. Wendy Wenk <wendy@wenkaviation.com>. Did you get rid of the baron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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