Fuel drain leaking UPDATED 5/10/18

[Dream to fly]

Went to the hanger today and I was left a surprise by my right wing.  A nice puddle.  It appears to be leaking from the drain.  Anyone know what the part number is or where to get one?  Is this a pilot replacement or do I need to call my AP?

 

[ArtVandelay]

Went to the hanger today and I was left a surprise by my right wing.  A nice puddle.  It appears to be leaking from the drain.  Anyone know what the part number is or where to get one?  Is this a pilot replacement or do I need to call my AP?
 

Before you do that, go back out and repeatedly pull full cup samples, there might be some debris that’s preventing the drain from sealing.
I had this problem and cured it this way.

[Dream to fly]

Before you do that, go back out and repeatedly pull full cup samples, there might be some debris that’s preventing the drain from sealing.
I had this problem and cured it this way.

I tried that but it seems to be leaking from the threads not the pin. Worse is the tank is 3/4 full.

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[Guest]

The drain is an F391-53S, if the O ring is leaking it is a MS29513-014.  Sometimes the rivets which hold the plate nut that the drain screws into leak.  A little bit of tissue paper moved around the drain valve used as a wick helps locate the leak.

Clarence

 

[Dream to fly]

The drain is an F391-53S, if the O ring is leaking it is a MS29513-014.  Sometimes the rivets which hold the plate nut that the drain screws into leak.  A little bit of tissue paper moved around the drain valve used as a wick helps locate the leak.
Clarence
 

Thinking it's the oring. It has bladders.

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[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

Thinking it's the oring. It has bladders.

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I’m not sure if O&N used the same drain valve.

Clarence

[neilpilot]

Maybe there's no O-ring, since you have bladders.  This was just discussed in 

.

[Dream to fly]

Maybe there's no O-ring, since you have bladders.  This was just discussed in 
.

Hmm. I searched and could not find anything. Gonna drain the tank tomorrow and see what gives. Nothing a blue wrench and a welder can't fix

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[Dream to fly]

I’m not sure if O&N used the same drain valve.
Clarence

Thanks I'll drain the tank and see

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[neilpilot]

7 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

Thanks I'll drain the tank and see

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In the thread I linked to above....the PDF referenced by N6758N shows P/N P/N F391-18.  This P/N was also confirmed by DXB. 

 

[Dream to fly]

In the thread I linked to above....the PDF referenced by N6758N shows P/N P/N F391-18.  This P/N was also confirmed by DXB. 
 

Thank you. For some reason Tapatalk says there is a server issue with the search function. Thanks for the link. I'm on it now


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[Guest]

I looked at the thread, the F391-18 valve is a 1/8”NPT thread, so no O ring should be required.  If you have an 1/8NPT plug you can pull the valve and install the plug without draining the tank.  Then you can clean and inspect and reinstall the valve.  

Clarence

 

[Dream to fly]

So it looks like I am getting bladders.  Anyone know where to get them?    It was leaking further up!  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

So it looks like I am getting bladders.  Anyone know where to get them?    It was leaking further up!  

You could pull the offending bladder and send it to Hartwig Fuel Cell Repair.  They are on both sides of the boarder out your way.

http://hartwig-fuelcell.com/

Clarence

[Dream to fly]

Well I guess it is pull the bladders time.    Nothing like rearranging the budget for the already fixed issues. Thanks @M20Doc for the info.  Gonna send them off as soon as I can.

[Dream to fly]

33 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

You could pull the offending bladder and send it to Hartwig Fuel Cell Repair.  They are on both sides of the boarder out your way.

http://hartwig-fuelcell.com/

Clarence

Just called.  Seems O&I owns the STC.  So if they are repairable great.  If not then I have to figure out what to do next. 

[DXB]

2 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

So it looks like I am getting bladders.  Anyone know where to get them?    It was leaking further up!  

OMG that really sucks - sorry.   Are you sure it's the actual bladder?  I can't quite make out what's going on in the pix.  How old are they?  You don't hear of leaking bladders on here very much.  I'd be curious to hear of what they look like when you pull them.

BTW you probably already figured it out, but Griggs Aircraft now owns the STC and provides support (info@griggsaircraft.com).  Matt Griggs responded to me immediately when I inquired recently about the sump valve part number.  I wonder if they could also offer you some guidance here.

[Dream to fly]

OMG that really sucks - sorry.   Are you sure it's the actual bladder?  I can't quite make out what's going on in the pix.  How old are they?  You don't hear of leaking bladders on here very much.  I'd be curious to hear of what they look like when you pull them.
BTW you probably already figured it out, but Griggs Aircraft now owns the STC and provides support (info@griggsaircraft.com).  Matt Griggs responded to me immediately when I inquired recently about the sump valve part number.  I wonder if they could also offer you some guidance here.

So I went to change the valve and looked closer to the wing tip and found gas running out the hole. So the bladder has to come out. They look to be 12+ years old. I'm sure it was installation error based on the previous owner adding extra capacity. Everything the owner did I'm finding out was guess and go repair.

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[Guest]

It’s more of a challenge to find the leak when there are multiple bladders connected together.  You may have drain the tanks and then open the individual bays to do an inspection and see if you can locate it.  

My experience with O &N is limited, but possibly you can open the outer most bladder and block the inter connecting tubes then refill to locate the leak?  It’s a process of elimination, or you remove them all to inspect and repair.  I have removed bladders before, blocked the openings then inflate them very carefully, then apply soap and water to locate the leaks.  Not unlike a bicycle inner tube.

Clarence

[Dream to fly]

It’s more of a challenge to find the leak when there are multiple bladders connected together.  You may have drain the tanks and then open the individual bays to do an inspection and see if you can locate it.  
My experience with O &N is limited, but possibly you can open the outer most bladder and block the inter connecting tubes then refill to locate the leak?  It’s a process of elimination, or you remove them all to inspect and repair.  I have removed bladders before, blocked the openings then inflate them very carefully, then apply soap and water to locate the leaks.  Not unlike a bicycle inner tube.
Clarence

The plan is to fly the plane to the AP tomorrow. Drain the tanks and remove them all. Spoke to Matt Griggs he is awesome he is getting prices together for replacement bags as needed. It seems to be leaking at the extension bladder connection and the second bad has a hole from a rivot or something

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[Marauder]

The plan is to fly the plane to the AP tomorrow. Drain the tanks and remove them all. Spoke to Matt Griggs he is awesome he is getting prices together for replacement bags as needed. It seems to be leaking at the extension bladder connection and the second bad has a hole from a rivot or something

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Please post pictures of what you find. My O&N installed bladders have been trouble free for the past 26 years.


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[N201MKTurbo]

If they are nitrile rubber they can be repaired unless they are completely falling apart. They can use a cold vulcanizing patch much like an inner tube patch.

Good Luck! 

[N201MKTurbo]

Check this out:

www.eaglefuelcells.com/ga/tech_basics.html

I went to a class with these guys recently. They know everything about fuel cells.

[N201MKTurbo]

Its kind of funny how they make these. they make a cardboard box the size of the cell then place all the rings and nipples on the box with double sided tape. then they lay the rubber impregnated fabric on the box. All the rubber is un-cured and very sticky. The box and all goes into the curing oven for vulcanization. After it is cured they fill it with hot water to turn the box to mush and scoop it out.

[Dream to fly]

Please post pictures of what you find. My O&N installed bladders have been trouble free for the past 26 years.


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I will do my best. The plane will now be 70 miles away and I had a hunch that the bags were going bad. The last three times I flew the plane I took fuel samples and in the tube was black floating particles on both sides. After looking in today with my borescope the bags were pulled to install the extension tanks and it doesn't seem that any protection strips were replaced or overlapped. I'm guessing that the leak is where the bag sits on seam. It's definitely the third bag and/or the extension tube and bag. As for the floating things I'm betting the owner before me didn't keep the bags full so the bags are deteriorating inside out. Another ding to my two years of looking for a well cared for plane. I bought the pig with cute panities and red lipstick.... Lmao

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