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Aspen / Autopilot issues


BaldEagle

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Hi all,

So I'm getting familiar with my "new" (1978) J and on my 3rd time flying the thing I'm having autopilot (and / or Aspen) issues.  The autopilot is a KFC-200, GPS is a GNS430 and there is an Aspen Evolution Pro.  The Aspen appears to be working fine and when pressing buttons on the autopilot (FD, HDG, etc.) the appropriate setting is illuminated on the autopilot annunciator panel but the autopilot will not engage for NAV, ALT, HDG or anything.  It behaves in a manner as if I were holding my finger on the CWS button.  If I press the GA button I no longer get command bars on the Aspen.  Big clue: there is a red light on the panel that is now illuminated labelled, "A/P AHRS FAIL".  I am guessing this airplane has an EA100 adapter and it is this that has failed.  Anyway, thought I'd reach out here to see if there's anything I can do before taking it to the shop and spending $$$.  (On a side note it looks like the previous owner took out an extended warrantee on the Aspen, which hopefully covers all components, so I'm not crying just yet).

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I have the EA100 adapter as well and it failed in flight about two years ago. I hand flew the plane the rest of the trip and after shutdown I fired it back up again and the light was off. I flew the plane the following day to troubleshoot and it worked perfectly and never failed since. It would be interesting to know if others have had problems with this adapter.

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Interesting. I had something similar my last flight. I was flying to a waypoint on GPSS and given a vector from ATC. Selected HDG only mode and the command bars went to a right turn when I wanted a left turn. Resetting the FD wouldn’t do anything so I just left the autopilot off for the remainder of the flight. No AHARS fail light for me though.

I’ll see what it’s doing after annual is complete. Have to test fly the new intercooler install as well.

Mike


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I had a similar problem not too long ago.I have the aspen  as well, and in my set up the auto pilot gets its attitude information from the the AHRS  which is part of the Aspen. The AHRS is made by Aspen  and is actually a separate box behind the panel. In my case, the AHRS fail light illuminated, and the auto pilot, a KFC 150, would not even go through the self test. Once the AHRS  was swapped out,  which my shop was able to get done under warranty,  everything was back to normal. Hope this helps.

Frank

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4 hours ago, BaldEagle said:

Hi all,

So I'm getting familiar with my "new" (1978) J and on my 3rd time flying the thing I'm having autopilot (and / or Aspen) issues.  The autopilot is a KFC-200, GPS is a GNS430 and there is an Aspen Evolution Pro.  The Aspen appears to be working fine and when pressing buttons on the autopilot (FD, HDG, etc.) the appropriate setting is illuminated on the autopilot annunciator panel but the autopilot will not engage for NAV, ALT, HDG or anything.  It behaves in a manner as if I were holding my finger on the CWS button.  If I press the GA button I no longer get command bars on the Aspen.  Big clue: there is a red light on the panel that is now illuminated labelled, "A/P AHRS FAIL".  I am guessing this airplane has an EA100 adapter and it is this that has failed.  Anyway, thought I'd reach out here to see if there's anything I can do before taking it to the shop and spending $$$.  (On a side note it looks like the previous owner took out an extended warrantee on the Aspen, which hopefully covers all components, so I'm not crying just yet).

That failure light is associated with an issue with the EA100. You didn't mention how you are engaging the autopilot with respect to the GPSS from the Aspen. If you hit the HDG button on the autopilot can you control turns using the heading bug on the Aspen? Is GPSS used at all? On my STEC, I would normally in HDG mode prior to going to Nav mode. My definition of "Nav" mode is leaving the autopilot in HDG mode and engaging the GPSS feature. Tell us more about how you are using the autopilot buttons.

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Prior to yesterday, pressing HDG and enabling the autopilot I could then twist the heading bug on the Aspen and the autopilot would behave as expected.  I've been reading the EA100 documentation and if the A/P AHRS FAIL light is illuminated it will disconnect the autopilot so the symptoms point to the EA100.  When I'm at the airport next I'm going to try an AHRS Reset on the Aspen, and pull the panel off and check the cables if it's still not resolved.  I just spoke to the previous owner who confirmed that it's still under warrantee so I'm happy (relieved) about that.

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1 hour ago, BaldEagle said:

Prior to yesterday, pressing HDG and enabling the autopilot I could then twist the heading bug on the Aspen and the autopilot would behave as expected.  I've been reading the EA100 documentation and if the A/P AHRS FAIL light is illuminated it will disconnect the autopilot so the symptoms point to the EA100.  When I'm at the airport next I'm going to try an AHRS Reset on the Aspen, and pull the panel off and check the cables if it's still not resolved.  I just spoke to the previous owner who confirmed that it's still under warrantee so I'm happy (relieved) about that.

I doubt the AHRS reset will help. It sounds like it is in the EA100. The default failure mode of the Aspen should be wings level when the autopilot is engaged. Does it do that?

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I was inarticulate in the above post inasmuch as I did not specify the AHRS part number which is the EA100. It is interesting that in the original set up for these aircraft the King autopilots took the attitude info from the King HSIs, which is obviously vaccum system based. Does the digital AHRS input for attitude information make the King autopilots as “safe” as the rate based systems such as the Stecs? I would assume so.

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  • 2 weeks later...
How many different owners are having EA100 challenges?
Seems to be something may be bubbling up.
-a-


I think the EA 100 has been problematic for owners who need them. Not sure what makes them different than the ACU.


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  • 11 months later...

Folks, resurrecting a thread here. I have a new Aspen Pro and my KFC 200 interfaced by the EA100. We test flew yesterday and found that the AP would engage, but any correction (even 1 degree) would cause a turn of 45 degrees plus immediately. Obviously we were disconnecting prior to this happening, but pretty scary. My avionics guys are working on it, but has anyone else experienced this with the EA100? Thanks, Mike

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On 3/29/2018 at 8:36 PM, Bravoman said:

I was inarticulate in the above post inasmuch as I did not specify the AHRS part number which is the EA100. It is interesting that in the original set up for these aircraft the King autopilots took the attitude info from the King HSIs, which is obviously vaccum system based. Does the digital AHRS input for attitude information make the King autopilots as “safe” as the rate based systems such as the Stecs? I would assume so.

The HSI (KI-525) on the King System is electric, but the Attitude Indicator (KI-256) is vacuum and of course that is where the King Autopilot gets the attitude info from.

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Folks, resurrecting a thread here. I have a new Aspen Pro and my KFC 200 interfaced by the EA100. We test flew yesterday and found that the AP would engage, but any correction (even 1 degree) would cause a turn of 45 degrees plus immediately. Obviously we were disconnecting prior to this happening, but pretty scary. My avionics guys are working on it, but has anyone else experienced this with the EA100? Thanks, Mike


Something isn’t configured or wired correctly. The bank angle is set to standard rate so you shouldn’t see 45°.

When I first got my Aspen, it took me a little time to figure out how GPSS worked and even though I had been using the heading bug (with auto-slewing off), I was actually flying GPSS when I was intending to fly heading mode only. Where I am headed with this is whether or not what you are seeing is related to pilot configurable settings and not the installation.


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While thinking about what isn’t working...

My KAP150 doesn’t do anything more than something near standard rate... 45° bank is almost 3X my max bank angle of my AP...

No matter what it uses for input... including me rotating the heading bug, or swapping from GPS guided to heading mode with the heading bug set far from the GPS course...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

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  • 5 weeks later...

I have an Aspen with an EA100, Garmin 430, Garmin GTX345, Garmin G5 and on and on.  Several instances, I have had the AHRS fail light come on after flying for about 2 1/2 hours and, of course the autopilot KAP 150 shuts down.  I haven’t taken the plane to the shop yet.  Usually after shutdown and startup, the error clears and everything works.  Having recently spent $13,000 for the EA100, G5 and the GTX345, I am not a happy camper.  I fly long trips and don’t enjoying losing my autopilot in IMC.

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Welcome aboard, Tim.

Is all that mounted in a Mooney?

Not that it will matter much of what plane it is or isn’t, but it sounds like a loose wire in there somewhere...

Were you able to reset it? (Intermittent) or did it croak and stay dead?

Stand by for an MSer that may have some knowledge on what to look for.

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic or instrument guy...

Best regards,

-a-

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All that plus a Garmin 696 with XM Weather plus an ipad with Foreflight.  The Mooney is now all electric running a vacuum pump that doesn’t support anything in the plane.

I have a call into my avionics guy who did the install less than 2 years ago.  He is now retired, so, hopefully he will respond.

Tim

5AA930C8-4FB7-4668-8D05-29B0E90EADB8.jpeg

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28 minutes ago, TimP said:

I have an Aspen with an EA100, Garmin 430, Garmin GTX345, Garmin G5 and on and on.  Several instances, I have had the AHRS fail light come on after flying for about 2 1/2 hours and, of course the autopilot KAP 150 shuts down.  I haven’t taken the plane to the shop yet.  Usually after shutdown and startup, the error clears and everything works.  Having recently spent $13,000 for the EA100, G5 and the GTX345, I am not a happy camper.  I fly long trips and don’t enjoying losing my autopilot in IMC.

Painful.  Consider asking this guy on Beechtalk how his problem got resolved:  https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=128861.

Sounds like pretty much the identical problem.  

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I have an Aspen with an EA100, Garmin 430, Garmin GTX345, Garmin G5 and on and on.  Several instances, I have had the AHRS fail light come on after flying for about 2 1/2 hours and, of course the autopilot KAP 150 shuts down.  I haven’t taken the plane to the shop yet.  Usually after shutdown and startup, the error clears and everything works.  Having recently spent $13,000 for the EA100, G5 and the GTX345, I am not a happy camper.  I fly long trips and don’t enjoying losing my autopilot in IMC.


I would suspect the EA100.


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The ACU converts digital outputs from the PFD to analog for the BK autopilots and is required on all installations. The EA100 interfaces the PFD AHRS to the BK autopilot and is only required if you remove the BK vacuum AI. Both units are external to the PFD. I don’t have a EA100 but I did just have an ACU fail and I got the impression from Aspen support that failures are not uncommon.

If it’s out of warranty, you might see if you can buy a used one on eBay. Aspen also has a program through dealers to exchange failed units for refurbished ones.  If you do a lot of business with an avionics shop that is an Aspen dealer, I’d try to get them to do the exchange for their cost. 

Skip

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6 hours ago, TimP said:

 I have had the AHRS fail light come on after flying for about 2 1/2 hours and, of course the autopilot KAP 150 shuts down.  

Tim, I had a similar problem with my AHRS light illuminating after a couple of hours and the A/P kicking off.  My avionics shop called Aspen and the Aspen rep had me go to a diagnostic page and take some pictures of the display. One of the gyros was drifting beyond tolerance and the PFD display unit had to be replaced. (These may not be the exactly correct technical terms for all of you avionics gurus, but you get the drift. The little doohickey was all cockamamie.)

Not necessarily the same as your problem, but there is a lot they can diagnose without a shop visit. 

Regards,

Mark

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18 hours ago, TimP said:

I have an Aspen with an EA100, Garmin 430, Garmin GTX345, Garmin G5 and on and on.  Several instances, I have had the AHRS fail light come on after flying for about 2 1/2 hours and, of course the autopilot KAP 150 shuts down.  I haven’t taken the plane to the shop yet.  Usually after shutdown and startup, the error clears and everything works.  Having recently spent $13,000 for the EA100, G5 and the GTX345, I am not a happy camper.  I fly long trips and don’t enjoying losing my autopilot in IMC.

The EA100 should be on its own circuit breaker. If it goes out in flight pull the breaker and reset it and see if it comes back.

I am hoping that the GPS aided AHRS in the new MAX will give the EA-100 better information to process for the autopilot and take care of this problem.

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