frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) I am having an issue with a push to talk button and likely a broken vacuum pump in an M20J. These seem like simple problems and I don't want to pay the LASAR/Top Gun shop rates for an MSC which are $110-120/hour. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good, cheap, efficient A&P in the bay area or vicinity (eg Sacramento or South, Livermore or West, San Jose or north). I'm willing to consider further out if I get a good recommendation and the price difference is substantial, but unless the problem can be fixed the same day, it means figuring out a way to get back to San Francisco and then back again to the mechanic. I suppose the central valley would also work as they have the Amtrak Train back to SF. The ideal is I fly somewhere in the AM, they fix it and give it back to me, and I fly it home in the PM. I called the guy at Davis, his shop rate is $100/hr and very backed up so he's out. Sundance at KOAK is out, I've had really bad experiences with them. Edited March 27, 2018 by frcabot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Can you chase the PTT wires yourself? You can probably find a broken wire or clean and test the switch as well as a radio technician... Can you order the proper vac pump yourself? You can probably find a mechanic to mount, and document the work without too much difficulty... This level work doesn’t make tons of sense to go to an MSC to get done... Do you have a local mechanic that you work with? Ideas that come to mind. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 I don't have a local mechanic and I can't see anything wrong with the wires myself. That's why I'm asking for a recommendation. I'm not even 100% sure it's the vacuum pump that needs replacing but I suspect it is. So I don't even want to buy something I may not even need. The only thing I'm asking for is the name and number of a good, inexpensive, honest and efficient mechanic. Surely there must be one somewhere in California? I'll open it up to Oregon and Arizona and Nevada too. Just give me a name and number. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Sorry, I thought I remembered the same question from before... Where is your plane, how far away is the next airport? You might ask the mechanic if they are allowed to free-lance and visit you’re hangar/tiedown area... How many hours were on the vac pump? More than 500 hours, it probably makes sense to swap out in place of problem solving... PP thoughts only, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) I asked the same question before and never got a single recommendation so it’s a little frustrating. Stop hoarding your damn mechanics. (This was meant facetiously.) No idea how much time is on the pump, I’d have to dig through years of logs which are I’m the plane and I don’t feel like doing that. Again, I’m no longer interested in diagnosing the problem. I just want to fly the thing to a mechanic and get it fixed and go home, without paying $120 per hour plus parts. Do all of you pay $120/hour for labor? If not, great. Give me the name, number, rate and location of your mechanic! Edited March 28, 2018 by frcabot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Now, I see your other thread, FRC... The reason Expensive shops exist is because some people would rather pay somebody else to read their logs... Trying to minimize costs, may require making phone calls or taking a visit... go for it! Shops all are listed in foreflight, WingX, etc... Did your vac system have a gauge on it or did you just get the lo/High light? Pumps’ carbon blades have a tendency to fail miserably. They just stop working letting out a bunch of carbon dust. Brittle blades wear slowly, normally. When they wear enough they stick and break-off... There is usually (often?) a filter to keep the dust from being drawn back into the vacuum system. Good luck, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Zuffoletto Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 You might try Mangon Aircraft up in Petaluma. I don't know their rates, but they're not an MSC. (707) 765-1848. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Foreflight doesn't list the rates and the review feature isn't often used so it's not a good way to find an A&P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Just now, Joe Zuffoletto said: You might try Mangon Aircraft up in Petaluma. I don't know their rates, but they're not an MSC. (707) 765-1848. Have you personally used them and/or can vouch for them and/or heard good things about them from people you trust? I'm really just looking for A&Ps that people have used and have good experiences with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Joe Zuffoletto said: You might try Mangon Aircraft up in Petaluma. I don't know their rates, but they're not an MSC. (707) 765-1848. I just called Mangon. They are $120/hr. This is a good example of why I want personal recommendations instead of wasting my time calling random shops from the yellow pages. I can do that equally effectively by myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Zuffoletto Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 minute ago, frcabot said: Have you personally used them and/or can vouch for them and/or heard good things about them from people you trust? I'm really just looking for A&Ps that people have used and have good experiences with. They'll be performing the annual on my Acclaim next month, and that will be my first serious experience with them. They've been doing the annuals on @FlyDave's Bravo for years, and he's happy with them. Ron Mangon is a standup guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Zuffoletto Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 minute ago, frcabot said: I just called Mangon. They are $120/hr. This is a good example of why I want personal recommendations instead of wasting my time calling random shops from the yellow pages. I can do that equally effectively by myself. You seem to have a rather haughty attitude towards those who are trying to help you. Good luck. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Joe Zuffoletto said: You seem to have a rather haughty attitude towards those who are trying to help you. Good luck. It’s not you, it’s the general experience of not being able to get good recommendations which equates to paying an arm and a leg when the most minor thing needs to be looked out. At this point I just might as well not fly with a vacuum pump since the AH is only needed IFR. But seriously if I’m going to be paying $120/hr, I’d rather just go to the MSC directly. The whole point is I want to try to get the $65/hr rate that everyone in the rest of the country brags about. Or if I’m goi g to be paying $100/hr+, at least have recommendations based on personal experiences rather than playing roulette with thousands of dollars and needing to have all the work redone later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Anthony and Joe...I gotta comment that based on frcabots demanding tone in his requests to find a good cheap mechanic...I think you both are beyond the call of duty!!My hats off to you both....Jeeze what a grouch! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) That's an interesting spelling of Geez. I've never seen it with an e before. Thanks for educating me! I also like the absences of any spaces in your punctuation and your incessant use of ellipses or multiple exclamation points. Gotta add that to my style book!!If you know what I mean...you probably do!...! Edited March 27, 2018 by frcabot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 37 minutes ago, frcabot said: I'm not even 100% sure it's the vacuum pump that needs replacing but I suspect it is How can you not be sure whether or not the vacuum pump needs replacing? It's a pretty obvious failure mode with multiple indications. 25 minutes ago, frcabot said: No idea how much time is on the pump, I’d have to dig through years of logs which are I’m the plane and I don’t feel like doing that. Again, I’m no longer interested in diagnosing the problem. I just want to fly the thing to a mechanic and get it fixed and go home, If you're not interested enough in your airplane to do even a basic amount of legwork yourself, you should expect to pay top dollar to a good shop. Or you should be asking your friends around your airport that also own airplanes what they would do. If you haven't been interested in making friends at your local airport, you should expect to pay top dollar to a shop. Instead you're giving Anthony a hard time even though he's trying to help you from New Jersey. You should be looking for help locally. Joe was a lot nicer than me when he described your attitude as "haughty". 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Well, let's see. The problem could be the pump, it could be loose wiring, it could be a blocked engine vane or inlet/outlet, it could be the connections from the pump to the AH, etc. There is a difference between willing to pay and willing to pay $120/hr. If someone is based at SFO, I can understand that rate. If someone is charging that for a non-specialized shop in the rural boonies, other people may be happy to pay that but I'm not. If you're happy with that rate, more power to you: give them your business. Also, super helpful comment. Thanks for your insight. Edited March 27, 2018 by frcabot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, frcabot said: Well, let's see. The problem could be the pump, it could be loose wiring, it could be an electrical failure to the pump, it could be the connections from the pump to the AH, etc. Get it now? To paraphrase something a bit more biblical, "MooneySpace helps those who help themselves." Edit- And I'll add: "I'm washing my hands of this topic." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpilot Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 53 minutes ago, frcabot said: I'm not even 100% sure it's the vacuum pump that needs replacing but I suspect it is If you have a vacuum failure, weather due to a bad pump or some other issue, than isn't your aircraft grounded unless you secure a ferry permit? 1 minute ago, frcabot said: Well, let's see. The problem could be the pump, it could be loose wiring, it could be an electrical failure to the pump, it could be the connections from the pump to the AH, etc. Get it now? So you have an electric vacuum pump?? {note the double "?"). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Just now, Andy95W said: To paraphrase something a bit more biblical, "MooneySpace helps those who help themselves." And to paraphrase something biblical myself, "If you have nothing nice to say or constructive to add, keep your mouth shut" OR "Better to be thought a fool than to start typing and remove all doubt!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, neilpilot said: If you have a vacuum failure, weather due to a bad pump or some other issue, than isn't your aircraft grounded unless you secure a ferry permit? So you have an electric vacuum pump?? {note the double "?"). Wouldn't think so as an AH is not in the necessary equipment list for VFR flying, and I have a secondary pump. I didn't realize vacuum pumps could not be (edit: meant to say engine-driven or) electrical. How exactly do you think a pump works?? (note the double "?"). Edited March 27, 2018 by frcabot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Your welcome firca!!!I gave you three exclamation points instead of only one cause you really know how to motivate the help ,if you know what I mean...and you probably don't!..! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, thinwing said: Your welcome firca!!!I gave you three exclamation points instead of only one cause you really know how to motivate the help ,if you know what I mean...and you probably don't!..! Thanks. You not only got my handle wrong, but invented some new punctuation even in your last post. I am truly awed. You should write a book. It is true, I have difficulty understanding illiterates. A for effort! Edited March 27, 2018 by frcabot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpilot Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, frcabot said: Wouldn't think so as an AH is not in the necessary equipment list for VFR flying, and I have a secondary pump. I didn't realize vacuum pumps could not be electric. How exactly do you think a pump works?? (note the double "?"). The M20J Type Certificate lists a vacuum pump as required equipment, even in VFR conditions. I didn't realize that the (primary) vacuum pump could be electric, at least in a M20J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frcabot Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, neilpilot said: The M20J Type Certificate lists a vacuum pump as required equipment, even in VFR conditions. I didn't realize that the (primary) vacuum pump could be electric, at least in a M20J. My POH doesn't reflect that. It lists a working gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator only for IFR. Besides, as I said, there is a secondary pump. But with all respect, arguing about what's on the MEL isn't all that helpful for the instant issue, which is whether anyone knows a good and reasonably priced A&P and can vouch for them based on personal experience. Nor is arguing whether I'm haughty or other nonsense. If you are so concerned about the MEL, you could always call the FSDO. Edited March 27, 2018 by frcabot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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