A bad day for my prop

[carusoam]

Thanks for sharing that Pirep, OW...

Great pic.

Hope you get that sorted out soon.

Best regards,

-a-

[Cody Stallings]

That’s a rough one.

Depending on how much Material is on the blades, it may Repair.

Might not be as bad as it looks.

[ohdub]

So I have three options:

- replace the damaged blade and have it ground down to match the damaged blade (I'm not a fan of this option)

- replace both blades

- replace the prop with a Hartzell HC-C2YR-1BFP/F7497. (Existing prop is a McCauley).

Help! Should I go with the Hartzell? What are the differences? Is there any weight difference? Performance difference?

Thanks, any advise will be appreciated!

OW

[Niko182]

24 minutes ago, ohdub said:

So I have three options:

- replace the damaged blade and have it ground down to match the damaged blade (I'm not a fan of this option)

- replace both blades

- replace the prop with a Hartzell HC-C2YR-1BFP/F7497. (Existing prop is a McCauley).

Help! Should I go with the Hartzell? What are the differences? Is there any weight difference? Performance difference?

Thanks, any advise will be appreciated!

OW

 

From what i hear, a lot of people like the top prop. You have the choice between 2 or 3 blade. my guess is the 2 blade top prop will give you a decent boost in cruise speed but expect about the same take off roll and climb. The 3 blade will give you a boost in takeoff and in climb, and I'd guess about the same cruise speed. maybe even 1 or 2 knots faster. 

Most importantly, the 3 blade looks cool.

[carusoam]

Sounds like personal choices there, OW...

Who gave the options?

Without listing prices, what’s important to you, and timelines...   How can MS be of service to you?

• A properly fixed blade by a quality shop, following proper procedures will be important... 
• If A proper replacement blade is all that is needed, why get two? Sounds like there is more to it....
• If you get two new blades, how do you know the hub is good?

Sounds like there is more homework to do.   Or did I miss something..?

If this is a forever plane, a new topProp or MT aren’t bad options either...

How tight are the economics?

PP Thinking out loud,

-a-

[ohdub]

Thanks Carusoam. 

I believe the insurance company is covering the cost of replacing the one blade and I pay the balance for anything above. The extra for any option is manageable.

The estimates for the options come from the prop shop that Clarence uses, they are of course reputable. The prop is 12 years old, I don't know off the top of my head how many hours are on it but it has been overhauled once (2 years ago).

If I go the Hartzell top prop route, they are estimating 2-3 weeks. I of course would like to be flying sooner than that, but if it's an upgrade, maybe it's worth the wait?

[ohdub]

And yes, this is a forever plane

[jaylw314]

48 minutes ago, ohdub said:

So I have three options:

- replace the damaged blade and have it ground down to match the damaged blade (I'm not a fan of this option)

- replace both blades

- replace the prop with a Hartzell HC-C2YR-1BFP/F7497. (Existing prop is a McCauley).

Help! Should I go with the Hartzell? What are the differences? Is there any weight difference? Performance difference?

Thanks, any advise will be appreciated!

OW

 

FWIW, these are WAG's based on my own experience.  IIRC, a new blade for the McCauley prop is about $3100.  I'm assuming the work to grind it down would be a couple hours, and then the labor to reinstall and balance the whole thing.  @Cody Stallings might have a more accurate idea, but I'm guessing around $4500 all told?

I got a new Hartzell 2-blade for about $9500 all told, so your difference might be around $5000?

I have not seen any significant performance differences.  Weight difference was less than 10 lbs heavier IIRC.  They say it's supposed to be quieter, but it's not grossly noticeable.  Despite getting both my old McCauley and the new Hartzell dynamically balanced by the same guy, my gut feeling is that the Hartzell has not been quite as smooth, but the difference is equivocal.

IMO, I'd have them disassemble the hub before deciding.  If the hub looks good, just get the new blade (unless my cost estimate is way off).  I can't think of a good reason to replace both blades, at that point you're talking about $6500, and then you might as well go for the new prop.

[steingar]

I wanted a 3 blade on mine but didn't wind up with it.  My reasoning was the three blade gives you a bit more room if you want to land turf or some other semi rough surface.  Never flew behind one admittedly.

[jetdriven]

No 3-blade prop is faster than a two blade and none of them are shorter than two blades either... These myths perpetuate them selves over and over on this forum but doesn’t make them any more factual.

They may be similar in cost to buy, but they cost more to own they cost more to operate, and they cost more to overhaul, and they cost far more to ship as well.  And they way more to O. think it’s used to be a clear consensus is that it looks sexier sitting on the ramp, if that you’re sort of thing but I get turned on by other things than that, such as things that add performance, not take it away

Edited April 13, 2018 by jetdriven

[MB65E]

I would see about a new blade and a full overhaul on the prop. 

My hartzell blades have passed overhaul 2 or 3 times. I would think that there is still some room on your existing blade. Grinding the new blade to match might not be that much material. 

Changing to the hartzell, will require more paperwork, spinner change most likely, and it still has RPM restrictions. The MAC blades are still a pretty decent designs. As far as the hartzell hub goes, we’re all one AD away from being grounded!!

Fresh overhaul and fly on! 

-Matt

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

I wanted a 3 blade on mine but didn't wind up with it.  My reasoning was the three blade gives you a bit more room if you want to land turf or some other semi rough surface.  Never flew behind one admittedly.

They’re not. 

[bradp]

Hey I think Bell 206's are good looking two blade-ers. 

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, MB65E said:

Changing to the hartzell, will require more paperwork, spinner change most likely, and it still has RPM restrictions. The MAC blades are still a pretty decent designs. As far as the hartzell hub goes, we’re all one AD away from being grounded!!

the STC for the Hartzell 2-blade prop is included in the price, so there's no extra cost or paperwork.  didn't add any cost or labor on my IA's end.  The RPM restrictions only apply to the M20E and F, all others it removes the RPM restrictions.

[MyNameIsNobody]

I have never seen anything like that.  Glad you are getting it taken care of.

[flyntgr1]

You may want to check with your prop shop, but I think hartzell recomends to scrap the hub if a blade is damaged beyond repair.

[Guest]

I just returned home from SnF.

The engine inspection is done per the AD and just needs the prop resolved.  Of course nothing was found internally.

The damaged blade can be saved by dressing it and it’s opposite to minimums, to the point I won’t pass it’s next 10 year overhaul in Canada.   This is a non starter,  I’m trying to save my customer money, not the insurance company.

A new blade can be installed along with an overhaul, but the new blade will also require some trimming to match its opposite.  Insurance should pay for this work.  The hub would be overhauled and reused as the blade was damaged by FOD, not an impact with something substantially harder than a small stone.

New McCauley or new Hartzell could be installed with the customer paying the difference between the option above and the new propeller.

Clarence 

 

 

[xcrmckenna]

If the op gets a replacement blade, I would get two rather than grind down a perfectly good new one to match the older one. It’s cheaper than getting a whole new prop and in the long run cheaper then having it be timed out with the other blade?


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[RLCarter]

What are these 2 areas? The one on the damaged area looks like crystals and the other looks like rust coming thru the paint

[Guest]

There was evidence of rock debris at the bottom of the divot.  Aluminum doesn’t rust, so my guess is a blood stain from a bug?

Clarence

[bradp]

Ok CSI guys was the bug  sitting on the rock or is there a separate investigation to be done ?

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

There was evidence of rock debris at the bottom of the divot.  Aluminum doesn’t rust, so my guess is a blood stain from a bug?

Clarence

  A picture might be worth a thousand words, but not being able to see it 1st hand those words usually form questions. 

[RLCarter]

13 minutes ago, bradp said:

Ok CSI guys was the bug  sitting on the rock or is there a separate investigation to be done ?

You would need the rock to see if a similar stain is on it, and it wouldn't be blood 

[mpg]

since  the prop needs repair or replacement due to impact,,,

would this trigger a prop strike engine tear down/inspection requirement?

not sure how the requirements are worded,,,  but i think this meets them!

[aaronk25]

Id push as hard as I could just to get the prop repaired or replaced without a tear down, unless you want a insurance paid IRAN done on your engine.

It’s a joke that this ding could cause engine damage as a result of the impact, but I do know how the directives are written. I’d try to avoid it.


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