BodyshopDave Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 Hello Mooneyspace. I’m looking at buying a J. This one in particular caught my eye and was hoping to see what the experts here thought. I know it had a gear-up around 4 years ago and has been flown regularly since then. Useful load is in the upper 800s. I’m awaiting logs to be sent. https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/23277325/1987-mooney-m20j-201 Quote
Danb Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 Kinda pricey but a beauty, when having your ppi make sure the repair was properly done Quote
flyboy0681 Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 165 knots on 10 gallons? With three blades? Based on what I have seen in the marketplace recently, this is priced reasonably based on its equipment and factory overhaul. Funky autopilot combination however. Quote
KSMooniac Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 Looks nice, seems like the price is too high (trying to recover all upgrade costs?) and I don't believe 165 KTAS at 10 GPH. Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk Quote
BodyshopDave Posted March 21, 2018 Author Report Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said: 165 knots on 10 gallons? With three blades? Based on what I have seen in the marketplace recently, this is priced reasonably based on its equipment and factory overhaul. Funky autopilot combination however. Yeah. I thought that sounded a little high too...it’ll do what it’ll do right? I saw that regarding the autopilot too. Not ideal, but I assume it would work ok. Edited March 21, 2018 by BodyshopDave Quote
BodyshopDave Posted March 21, 2018 Author Report Posted March 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, KSMooniac said: Looks nice, seems like the price is too high (trying to recover all upgrade costs?) and I don't believe 165 KTAS at 10 GPH. Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk Agreed. It is expensive. It seems like there isn’t much else in the market right now that has a low time engine with decent avionics. 1 Quote
Hank Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 Loaded, overpriced and overstated on speed. Don't think I've heard anyone else mention 165 knots for a J in cruise, although WOT/Full Rich should be a different story . . . It's obviously his baby, and that is undoubtedly contributing to the (high) price. Never hurts to make an offer, though. When I bought my house in '15, I thought my offer was low enough to get a counter. So did my realtor and the listing realtor. We were all surprised when it was accepted overnight. so be ready, you never can tell! First, though, I would run it through a couple of evalutors like AOPA and the one in every copy of The Mooney Flyer. Happy hunting! 1 Quote
Rmag Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 If it is squawk free, low time engine reman, lower time airframe, newer paint and interior, with a modern panel, I can see some people buying around his price. I'd ask for a little more info on the autopilot. Although he needs his airspeed indicator or fuel flow overhauled. Its providing faulty readings... 3 Quote
jaylw314 Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 "your city may name a day in your honor with this one in your hangar" Sheesh 2 minutes ago, Hank said: Loaded, overpriced and overstated on speed. I'd agree on all, although I don't think terribly overpriced. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 I still don't think it's terribly overpriced. Late last year when I thought the insurance company was going to total my '83 J, I started looking to see what clean and well equipped J's were selling for and concluded that a mid-1980's to early 90's platform with a well equipped steam gauge panel with a low time engine, recent paint and interior were selling between $130 - 135k. Given the panel on this J, still think the price is in the ballpark based on what I had seen at the time, keeping in mind that only a sucker would pay the price that's actually being offered. 1 Quote
Bartman Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 I wish my J looked like this. 10 years younger and a very nice example of what can be done to an older airframe. I'd like to see 165 kts, but I can only do 158-159 under optimal conditions, altitude, and max power. Make an offer. All they can do is say no, can't take your birthday away. Quote
mooniac15u Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 What is the concern about the autopilot? Is it because there are two parts listed? The STEC PSS-60 is a pitch control add-on for single axis autopilots like the KAP 100. It can hold altitude, hold a constant rate of climb or descent, and track a glideslope. I have one on my M20J that works together with my Century 21 AP. 1 Quote
PTK Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 Although I have no issue with the asking price it’s not appropriate for this airplane. For that kind of money I’d expect a Garmin G500 with a KAP/FC150, ADS-B in and NDH. Not a dead end Aspen with a patched up entry level auto pilot and the stigma of damage hx. Overpriced imo. 1 Quote
Danb Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 The stec 60pss is a nice addition to the current autopilot, $10-12K to add one. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Danb said: The stec 60pss is a nice addition to the current autopilot, $10-12K to add one. I guess my point was that this is a 1987 model year and the person who ordered it opted for a KAP 100 at a time when the KAP 150 was already a mature product. What was the difference in cost at the time? Quote
Marauder Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 I’m with rmag’s on this. Take out all the avionics, undo the interior and paint job and you have yourself an $80k plane. The question that should be asked of the OP, is this plane worth $150k to you? People have no idea how much all of these upgrades cost. I would rather spend a lot more on a plane that has healthy bones and is equipped nicely already. What are the other options? Moving up to an early Ovation or Bravo and still need to do updates. It’s not like Mooney is still making Js that have start of the industry avionics. As long as the plane’s value works out reasonably on the calculators, why are people resistant to pay more for something that is worth more?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 3 1 Quote
PTK Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 Because you can take your hypothetical 80K $ airplane and put in a brand new G500txi, new paint and interior and be at 130K. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, PTK said: Because you can take your hypothetical 80K $ airplane and put in a brand new G500txi, new paint and interior and be at 130K. Add a factory reman and you are now in $150k territory. Quote
Marauder Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 Because you can take your hypothetical 80K $ airplane and put in a brand new G500txi, new paint and interior and be at 130K. Yeah right. When do you install the 750/650 combo he has in the plane valued $30k? Or the $7k GTX-345 that is in the panel. Like I said before, people are ignorant on these costs and your post proves. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 4 Quote
pwnel Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, PTK said: Because you can take your hypothetical 80K $ airplane and put in a brand new G500txi, new paint and interior and be at 130K. Sorry, not a chance. I wouldn't mess with autopilot either right now - too many new options will be STC'ed within the next few months. GFC500 for example - although the Aspens is not going to work with that. Quote
Marauder Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 If it is squawk free, low time engine reman, lower time airframe, newer paint and interior, with a modern panel, I can see some people buying around his price. I'd ask for a little more info on the autopilot. Although he needs his airspeed indicator or fuel flow overhauled. Its providing faulty readings... Dan - I know your shop is a full service avionics/paint/interior shop. Can you ball park the value of upgrades you see on this plane? Even if they are depreciated because of their age, he still has a ton invested in it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote
PTK Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 34 minutes ago, Marauder said: Yeah right. When do you install the 750/650 combo he has in the plane valued $30k? Or the $7k GTX-345 that is in the panel. Like I said before, people are ignorant on these costs and your post proves. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Where do you see a GTX 345? And no avionics or interior can overcome the stigma of damage hx anymore than lipstick can help a pig. I have no issue with the asking price. Just not reasonable in this case. And I disagree with your assesnent that people are ignorant. They aren’t anymore ignorant than some sellers anyway. People want to see value for their money. If you hypothetically take away the damage hx how much should he be asking? 165k?! 170?! Quote
Marauder Posted March 21, 2018 Report Posted March 21, 2018 Where do you see a GTX 345? And no avionics or interior can overcome the stigma of damage hx anymore than lipstick can help a pig. I have no issue with the asking price. Just not reasonable for this example. If you hypothetically take away the damage hx how much should he be asking? 165k?! 170?! Calculated with the 330 in the panel. Did NOT include anything for the 3 bladed prop or if he did the mag conversion. Showed the AP as an Century or STEC since the only King shown on the calculator was the 200. Paint and interior both look to be in excellent condition. He is in the ballpark. I certainly wouldn’t kick this Mooney out of bed for eating crackers. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote
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