Brandontwalker

Experimental Avionics in Certified Aircraft

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Hey guys I was having a discussion with my A&P about the G5 and he seems to think the STC paperwork is airframe specific with a fresh stamp and signature per install. Does anyone have a copy of the stc. Is it just the standard SA01818WI document (9pages I think) or does the code you send Garmin generate a specific doc with reference to your units serial etc? 

 

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2 hours ago, Scott Aviation said:

Hey guys I was having a discussion with my A&P about the G5 and he seems to think the STC paperwork is airframe specific with a fresh stamp and signature per install. Does anyone have a copy of the stc. Is it just the standard SA01818WI document (9pages I think) or does the code you send Garmin generate a specific doc with reference to your units serial etc? 

 

You can lookup the STC paperwork on the FAA website.  All the info is public.

Seeing the information on the STC does not give you permission to use it.  Garmin has the STC- when you buy a G5 there is paperwork involved where Garmin sells you the right to install equipment using their STC. It’s my understanding that this is the case with any STC, not just Garmin. 

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@Scott Aviation the G5 STC AML lists M20-everything.  All airframes are eligible.  When you purchase the G5 you visit Garmin website with a code and that activates your permission letter (has your N number) and registers the unit for its warranty.   That second bit - permission letter - is airframe / SN specific.  Not the STC. 

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11 minutes ago, bradp said:

@Scott Aviation the G5 STC AML lists M20-everything.  All airframes are eligible.  When you purchase the G5 you visit Garmin website with a code and that activates your permission letter (has your N number) and registers the unit for its warranty.   That second bit - permission letter - is airframe / SN specific.  Not the STC. 

I remember in previous thread, somebody pointed out some STC's were "open", e.g. you were allowed to use it for any eligible installation without getting the STC owner's OK.  I'm guessing this is a rare exception, but I'm not sure how to tell the difference.

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I have thought if you were in-between going full experimental (RV or Velocity) and certified aircraft.  What if you bought a Mooney and upgraded it anyway you wanted using ALL experimental avionics etc as well as most any aerodynamic mods and engine mods.  Simply slap the experimental labels on it and use it (approve it) as any other experimental.  I know during trial phases this has to be done, so why not long term.  (BTW- I could never do that.  My wife does not like to fly in a Boeing much less a Mooney and so if I put the experimental tag on it she would never get in the plane.)

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2 hours ago, wcb said:

I have thought if you were in-between going full experimental (RV or Velocity) and certified aircraft.  What if you bought a Mooney and upgraded it anyway you wanted using ALL experimental avionics etc as well as most any aerodynamic mods and engine mods.  Simply slap the experimental labels on it and use it (approve it) as any other experimental.  I know during trial phases this has to be done, so why not long term.  (BTW- I could never do that.  My wife does not like to fly in a Boeing much less a Mooney and so if I put the experimental tag on it she would never get in the plane.)

The definition of experimental aircraft requires that the owner is directly involved in the production (design,fabrication and assembly) of the majority of the finished aircraft (some interpret this as 51%, but that is obviously up to interpretation).  The FAA has to approve each experimental airworthiness certificate, so you have to be ready to provide the documentation and proof of the above on that first inspection.  Even if you tore down a Mooney and put it back together rivet-by-rivet, it would still not meet that definition.  Most kit producers out there have this in mind when they sell you the plans and/or parts.  Only if you meet this requirement does the FAA allow you to slap an experimental label on an aircraft and do whatever the hell you want with it.

Yes, I know it's weird that if a company sells you a well-engineered, reliable aircraft, you can't put untested, potentially unsafe stuff in it, but if you build a unique, one-off, untested aircraft you can go right ahead.

I suppose if you took a Mooney apart and used less than half the parts to make a new Frankenstein-type aircraft, then maybe you could get it approved as experimental.

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I know of other planes that have gotten around this as well.  Also, I understand that when avionics companies are doing their model test they at least have a temporary designation of experimental.   There must be some loop hole approval process.

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15 minutes ago, Marcopolo said:

@jaylw314,

 

  How do the warbirds get around this?

 

Ron

Warbirds are registered as Experimental class and Exhibition Category. They are only allowed to be flown for airshows or training for airshows. Some warbirds train constantly to be ready for that airshow.

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When thinking low cost airplane... go experimental?

My favorite experimentals are Lancairs... low cost turbines for a million plus...

You know the million dollar plane with the fancy ‘experimental’ signs all over it comes up in every conversation... when boarding...

-a-

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If you take a certified aircraft into experimental category for testing or certifying appliances it can't stay in that category longer than a year IIRC. There is a time limit when it must be put back to certified status. The Feds won't let it languish in experimental forever. 

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