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Avidyne marketing methods...


cnoe

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17 hours ago, OR75 said:

I understand that this thread is about false advertising or bait and switch or whatever ....

however, I am glad that there is an alternative to Garmin for WAAS GPS navigators. 

What would be paying in a single supplier situation ? 

Not sure the purchase of UPS by Garmin was good for the average consumer I am 

the market for certified avionics is very artificially restricted...  We're already paying way the hell too much, but when there are only 4 players in the market, and they all sell a nearly identical product at a nearly identical price...  Teddy is spinning in his grave.

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19 hours ago, OR75 said:

I understand that this thread is about false advertising or bait and switch or whatever ....

however, I am glad that there is an alternative to Garmin for WAAS GPS navigators. 

What would be paying in a single supplier situation ? 

Not sure the purchase of UPS by Garmin was good for the average consumer I am 

Apollo, who later became UPS Aviation Technologies was the leader in General Aviation GPS in the 90's and early 2000's. Go back in old issues of Flying magazine and read their reviews and look at their ads. The were the cutting edge 20-25 yeas ago. The Garmin GPS's back then were clunky and cumbersome. (I had a Garmin 100 and 150 panel mount - definitely not intuitive.)

Apollo delivered the first WAAS GPS (CNX80), even though Garmin had promised it earlier. Although Garmin announced they would have WAAS for the GNS 430 and 530 they continued to struggle and promised dates kept getting pushed further back. In 2003 Garmin bought UPS AT for $38 million cash for one main reason (https://www8.garmin.com/pressroom/corporate/082203.html). The Oregon team (formerly Apollo engineers) reverse engineered the WAAS that was in the CNX80 (later called GNX480) for the GNS series. Garmin proceeded to kill off all of the other great Apollo products including the MX-200, SL-30, SL-40, SL-70, etc. Although a lot of the architecture of the SL-30 is in Garmin's new nav coms.

Finally in 2006, years after they had promised WAAS, Garmin got FAA approval for the 430W and 530W. (https://www8.garmin.com/pressroom/aviation/110906.html)

Who knows where UPS AT would be right now in terms of innovation? Probably leaps and bounds ahead as they had been. They were innovators in ADS-B almost 20 years ago (https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/garmin-snaps-up-ups-aviation-169375/).  The acquisition was a bargain for Garmin but not good for the consumer. After Avidyne's release of the IFD 540, finally there was competition again. Garmin finally got busy and added features to the 750 and 650, like rubberbanding and bluetooth (which hadn't even been built into their design so they had to use an SD bluetooth card). Garmin has had to offer rebates to stay competitive. They have also added some great features like the Visual approach, now forcing others to go back to the drawing board. So, yes Avidyne probably got a little aggressive with their marketing, but since GNS 430's and 530's aren't being made anymore, the handwriting is on the wall at some point as parts supplies eventually dry up. But yes Avidyne jumped the gun a little, however competition is good. I hope they and others continue to battle the Garmin Goliath with everything they have and the consumer wins in the process.

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2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

...So, yes Avidyne probably got a little aggressive with their marketing... But yes Avidyne jumped the gun a little, however competition is good... I hope they and others continue to battle the Garmin Goliath with everything they have and the consumer wins in the process.

What’s with the euphemisms and tiptoeing? Is it too sensitive for you to call it for what it is and call them out for lying? 

The consumer doesn’t win by being asked to pay thousands while being lied to by companies with unethical and immoral business practices. 

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7 minutes ago, PTK said:

What’s with the euphimisms? Are you too scared to call it what it is and call them out for lying? 

The consumer doesn’t win by being asked to pay thousands while being lied to by companies with unethical and immoral business practices. 

"soon to be unsupported GNS" . . . soon is a relative term.

Just like in 1999 Garmin said "soon" we will have WAAS for the GNS 430 & 530. It came out in late 2006.

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1 minute ago, LANCECASPER said:

"soon to be unsupported GNS" . . . soon is a relative term.

Just like in 1999 Garmin said "soon" we will have WAAS for the GNS 430 & 530. It came out in late 2006.

Garmin never lied to me, the consumer, about another company’s product. Avidyne did. 

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"soon to be unsupported GNS" . . . soon is a relative term.
Just like in 1999 Garmin said "soon" we will have WAAS for the GNS 430 & 530. It came out in late 2006.

Niiice . . They just lied about their own . . Lol? I think I’d prefer they lie about someone else’s


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29 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:


Niiice . . They just lied about their own . . Lol? I think I’d prefer they lie about someone else’s emoji3.png


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Garmin didn’t lie! They bought UPS because it already had FAA approvals. It was a very smart move. Why reinvent the wheel? They never lied!

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4 hours ago, PTK said:

What’s with the euphemisms and tiptoeing? Is it too sensitive for you to call it for what it is and call them out for lying? 

The consumer doesn’t win by being asked to pay thousands while being lied to by companies with unethical and immoral business practices. 

First, Avidyne did not lie. Period. Their words are in print and even you can't change what they actually said. 

Second, you want to praise Garmin for destroying their competition and costing avionics consumers millions of dollars?  

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Second, you want to praise Garmin for destroying their competition and costing avionics consumers millions of dollars?  

They bought the competition, they didn’t destroy them, or do anything illegal.
They are in the business to make money, if they didn’t make money where would we be, complaining about Avidyne I guess .
personally I think FAA has cost us way more than any one company.
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1 hour ago, Cruiser said:

The consumer was hurt by lack of competition.

Very true. In the early to mid 90's think about who the players were in the Loran and GPS market. King, Arnav, Foster, Narco, Trimble, Texas instrumentsApollo, Northstar, Garmin, plus a few other smaller ones. They were coming out with major new product announcements every two  or three years just to keep up with each other. King self-destructed and Garmin bought their most innovative competitor while leap frogging ahead of everyone else. Now with just a couple of players the products stay out for 10 years or more before a really new product is introduced.

The big thing that Avidyne has done for the consumer is drastically reduce the cost of upgrading technology. If you have a 15 year old Garmin box with very low resolution, 8 colors, no way of displaying airways, etc, in 30 minutes in your own hangar you can enter the 21st Century by sliding the old one out and the new one in.  You have touch screen, synthetic vision, wi-fi, bluetooth, IFD 100 app, etc, etc. Once you recoup the money on your 430 or 530, you are upgrading for what a top end handheld gps cost in 1995 dollars.

One more thought . . . As people are trading up their IFD 540's to IFD 550's which have Attitude Reference built in you can get a refurbished 540 with a 2 year warranty for not much more than $10,000 street price. Once you sell your GNS530W outright for $7500 it is a no-brainer.

Garmin had loyalty to their dealers in mind in designing the GNS replacements, which required complete rewiring. They were not thinking of saving the consumer money. You would really have to think twice about taking out a GNS530W/GNS430W combo and having Garmin give you $3000/$2000 for them for it and then paying $30000 to have a GTN750/650 combo installed. In the case of the 530W they are giving you $1000 less than the WAAS upgrade costs. Ouch. Not much loyalty to your customers, knowing that the street price is $7500.

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11 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

@LANCECASPER please send link for the 10k 540’s. I’m ready to upgrade. I missed a 440 on BS a week ago for 7.5k by 5 mins. 

There's still an IFD 440 on Barnstormers for $7500 - maybe it's the same one.

I've seen the refurbished ones listed on Beechtalk for $11000, might be a little room for negotiation in there. I think Alan had a couple of them for that price.

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2 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

The past two Chase had for sale were 12+.  If I could get the 430w to 540 delta to 3-4K I’m ready to pull the trigger. 

Talk to Alan Fox or Derek Boxwell. Of course 430W to 540 is going to require some panel work because they are different sizes.

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On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:26 PM, MIm20c said:

The past two Chase had for sale were 12+.  If I could get the 430w to 540 delta to 3-4K I’m ready to pull the trigger. 

I can sell you a 540 , factory serviced with paperwork , and all the options , for about 11.5 , I can give yo a trade for a 430w for a delta of 6000.00 ...  No way to do it at 4 K ,  

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16 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

I can sell you a 540 , factory serviced with paperwork , and all the options , for about 11.5 , I can give yo a trade for a 430w for a delta of 6000.00 ...  No way to do it at 4 K ,  

Sounds like fair prices to me. Let me think about it.  Could you PM me the price of a 440, I might decide to do a 440/430 combo. 

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