M20kflyer99

PFD install conundrum, which one...

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I'm starting to plan out a PFD replacement for my 6-pack.  I love the look of the G500, hate the price, but not a fan it still needs a backup.  I'd have to go with the ESI-500 because the vacuum must go!

Aspens offer a ton of functionality and I can spread out the dual installation over time.  I have a huge mental block in spending the money on such low res display.  Dual aspens would work as backup, which would be nice.   Aspen would give the GTN enough ADC data to display the wind speed and direction.  Not sure if the G500 can do that. I'd need another subscription for mapping.

Dual G5's and an ADC would be a nice and clean install to my my all Garmin panel but I don't want to go that route unless Garmin STC legacy AP AI control in the future.  Dual G5's and Ki-300 (if it ever sees actual daylight) may be am options.  = Triple redundancy for critical instruments.


Am I missing any other cost effective options?  I'm waiting to see what Sun n Fun brings before making any down-payments..

 

 

The pictures are pre GTX345.  The backlight now matches!

image3.jpeg

image1.jpeg

Edited by M20kflyer99

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21 minutes ago, M20kflyer99 said:

I'm starting to plan out a PFD replacement for my 6-pack.  I love the look of the G500, hate the price, but not a fan it still needs a backup.  I'd have to go with the ESI-500 because the vacuum must go!

Aspens offer a ton of functionality and I can spread out the dual installation over time.  I have a huge mental block in spending the money on such low res display.  Dual aspens would work as backup, which would be nice.   Aspen would give the GTN enough ADC data to display the wind speed and direction.  Not sure if the G500 can do that. I'd need another subscription for mapping.

Dual G5's and an ADC would be a nice and clean install to my my all Garmin panel but I don't want to go that route unless Garmin STC legacy AP AI control in the future.  Dual G5's and Ki-300 (if it ever sees actual daylight) may be am options.  = Triple redundancy for critical instruments.


Am I missing any other cost effective options?  I'm waiting to see what Sun n Fun brings before making any down-payments..

 

 

The pictures are pre GTX345.  The backlight now matches!

image3.jpeg

image1.jpeg

The G500 will be replaced with the new touchscreen version. My advice on doing any panel change is to do as much as you can in one install. Multiple surgeries are expensive and if you use a different shop, more time consuming. If you need to push out a second upgrade, have the first shop pre-wire and run as much wiring as may be needed to eliminate pulling the interior a second or third time.

Also, really think hard about your wants/needs. As an owner who flew with a non-GPS, non-glass plane for 23 years before doing the upgrades I did, it is more about the wants than the needs. In an all electric plane, you need to be cognitive of the risk associated with losing your electrical system. My Aspen PFD is backed up by the MFD and both are backed up by the ESI-500. I would make sure, especially if you are a serious IFRer, that you understand what your redundancy is (how long each battery will run and what order should you move through the redundancy). Make sure your breaker panel is color coded and you know what needs to get pulled and what can stay. 

5aa6a816b23bf_2017PanelUpgrade.thumb.jpg.21a1c7d6f7b5b9d542abf5e0ad7f4923.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Marauder said:
The G500 will be replaced with the new touchscreen version. My advice on doing any panel change is to do as much as you can in one install. Multiple surgeries are expensive and if you use a different shop, more time consuming. If you need to push out a second upgrade, have the first shop pre-wire and run as much wiring as may be needed to eliminate pulling the interior a second or third time.

Also, really think hard about your wants/needs. As an owner who flew with a non-GPS, non-glass plane for 23 years before doing the upgrades I did, it is more about the wants than the needs. In an all electric plane, you need to be cognitive of the risk associated with losing your electrical system. My Aspen PFD is backed up by the MFD and both are backed up by the ESI-500. I would make sure, especially if you are a serious IFRer, that you understand what your redundancy is (how long each battery will run and what order should you move through the redundancy). Make sure your breaker panel is color coded and you know what needs to get pulled and what can stay. 

5aa6a816b23bf_2017PanelUpgrade.thumb.jpg.21a1c7d6f7b5b9d542abf5e0ad7f4923.jpg

Your setup is one I am considering. My thoughts are that in the event of alternator failure I can turn off 2/3 displays and move over accordingly as I drain the batteries. I’ll be getting on the ground sooner than later anyway. The MVP-50 won’t last forever on battery and I like having engine instruments.   I see you have backups to your JPI.  This is something I should consider...

Edited by M20kflyer99

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6 minutes ago, M20kflyer99 said:


Your setup is one I am considering. My thoughts are that in the event of alternator failure I can turn off 2/3 displays and move over accessibly as I drain the batteries. I’ll be getting on the ground sooner than later anyway. The MVP-50 won’t last forever on battery and I like having engine instruments.

I did a load calculation and ran the Aspens on battery to check nominal battery capacity. In my case, in the event of a complete power failure, I would unload everything except the Aspen PFD, the GTN, the Lynx transponder and the JPI 900. The failover path would be to power up the Aspen MFD and do a reversion with about 10% battery left in the PFD. If needed, I would then run the MFD to shutdown and then power up the ESI-500 (which has Nav enablement to the GTN). Those units will run for 2 hours nominally in that order. The battery is the big question mark and depending on it, I should be able to run 1.5 to 2 hours depending on load (com radio usage & the transponder). I have been looking into the B&C standby alternator that mounts on the vacuum pad. If I went that route, the backup strategy would be different.

Edited by Marauder

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I would add the JPI is a pretty low drain unit. Your MVP may draw more because of the display size. I would check the power consumptions and add 50% to be safe.

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We’re along on the same thought process. Did you do any tests on the GTN and XPDR for load usage? My gtx345 may be the first thing to go followed by the 750 in event of alt failure.

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2 minutes ago, M20kflyer99 said:

We’re along on the same thought process. Did you do any tests on the GTN and XPDR for load usage? My gtx345 may be the first thing to go followed by the 750 in event of alt failure.

I did. Still refining it as I add or change things out.

5aa6b3e168ed7_PowerLoading2017.thumb.JPG.8cfe7d1ea807da4295a0c7fb4586970e.JPG

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3 hours ago, Marauder said:

I did. Still refining it as I add or change things out.

5aa6b3e168ed7_PowerLoading2017.thumb.JPG.8cfe7d1ea807da4295a0c7fb4586970e.JPG

So running your 12V, 29 ampere you have about 1 hour assuming your Emergency + 50% draw.  That should be enough time  to safely land under most conditions.  Just make one radio call explaining your situation and plan to ATC, since transmitting takes more power than receiving. 

Looks like you are pretty set in case of an alternator failure.  

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I read somewhere here that Dynon Skyview HDX is getting certified in the not-too-distant future. It's a nice system, and the complete package is something like $18K, which includes engine monitoring and autopilot. I haven't used the G500, but I have flown SkyView (in an experimental), and it's a pretty nice system....

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21 hours ago, Marauder said:

I have been looking into the B&C standby alternator that mounts on the vacuum pad. If I went that route, the backup strategy would be different.

I've had a B&C standby alternator for a while.  On a J, it just fits in the area where the vac pump was and is one of the most worthwhile additions IMHO when your panel is mostly glass.  I assume the F model fitment would be similar, but I don't think there is a model available for a K.

It came in handy one time when the alternator belt almost failed.

Victor 

 

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I love that giant screen engine monitor, but putting it way over to the right looks like it negates all of the benefit of Having the larger screen.  

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I think the smart move is to continue waiting until Oshkosh this year. Dynon kicked the door open last year, but haven't quite gotten thru it. Aspen is overdue for an upgrade in display/processor power at a minimum. Avidyne should enter the PFD market IMO as well. Garmin has the nicer TXi product but not at a price point most Mooney owners will enjoy...but they have the G3X system that might make a great counter to the Dynon kit.

I'm still watching. (And don't have the budget now anyway)

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

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I don’t have much to add. But, I agree that it’s best to take your time and get the panel you want in one installation.  

Ho

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Look at Paul Steen @gsxrpilots panel, that's what I would do if I had a 231/252. Clean, cost effective, and very functional.

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The TXI would interface very well with the 750 for charts, flight plan info, etc. 

Keep in mind the Garmin system needs the gad 43(e) which is about $5k including the required unlock. I think you can also add the altitude preselect interface unlock for another $3k if you want that feature. 

The txi architecture is probably ripe for many upgrades in the future. I’d want to make sure I was all Garmin to make sure everything worked seamlessly for the next 15 years. 

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The TXI would interface very well with the 750 for charts, flight plan info, etc. 
Keep in mind the Garmin system needs the gad 43(e) which is about $5k including the required unlock. I think you can also add the altitude preselect interface unlock for another $3k if you want that feature. 
The txi architecture is probably ripe for many upgrades in the future. I’d want to make sure I was all Garmin to make sure everything worked seamlessly for the next 15 years. 

The GAD43e includes alt pre-select with VNAV with those AP’s that will support it like the KFC150. No extra enablement.


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