OneAuburnFan Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 I will be getting my 1977 J model painted this June and am wondering if I am missing an opportunity for some awesome modifications that will be easiest done prior to the re-finish? Obviously, the J has a lot of popular speed mods built in. Are there more that I should consider for either speed or appearance that won’t break the bank more than the paint job already is going to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Good morning Auburn fan, we have a few of you guys around here... We also have a few paint jobs that have been detailed pretty well over the past couple of years. Some with pretty high details... The M20J and it’s sister ships are both very similar when it comes to paint... you may want to use the search features to find them all... @Hyett6420, @aviatoreb, @jetdriven Have documented some pretty nice paint skills lately... There are a few more than my memory can hold... The 77J is pretty early on, in the modern aerodynamics category. There have been a couple of things like cowl updates or even new cowls. Exhaust pipes, Wingtips and antennae... But, this opens a slew of things that start to go beyond your stated price guidance... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAuburnFan Posted March 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 I have struck a deal with Hawk Aircraft Painting in Tampa. So, the process and the painter is identified. I will check those other users though to see what mods they may have incorporated into the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Also find anything regarding Hawk by running them through the search function... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 War Eagle! @Hyett6420 posted a pretty comprehensive list of things to consider when painting a Mooney. He also flies a J. It's near the end of his thread on "refitting" his plane, G-OBAL. it would be wirth finding and reading his document. Hope your fixing and painting goes smoothly, and please give us some photos! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Use Scheme Designers to get the paint job you like, then use Moody Aero Graphics to cut the paint mask. I did this. Every line on my plane was cut by a computer. No guesswork by a guy with a roll of tape and a magazine photo. I assisted heavily to get the mask on the plane. I have a rather complex scheme and it was about 40lb of vinyl mask. if the windshield has any crazing or any defects such as milkiness or stars when flying west near sunset, change it now. Be very careful you can use 4-4 Cherry flush rivets right back into the original holes. tail gap fairings, ELT antenna under fiberglass dorsal fin. rebuild the cowl, i mean really rebuild it not just slap boat fiberglass resin and hardware store cloth. Ive written extensively about this. Blade VOR antennas. Flush patch that stuff. make it clean. aileron gap seals. antenna farm clean up. full-on wing smoothing, Lets make this into a Glasair III wing. We did. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Remove your ram air, it doesn’t do anything for the J. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Can they repair the ailerons with minor hail damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, teejayevans said: Remove your ram air, it doesn’t do anything for the J. Not true. It gives you a 0.25" MP boost worth about 2-3% power and around 5HP. That's about 3kts of speed for nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 41 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said: 1) Remove your fiberglass flap hinge covers and throw them away. Mooney no longer installs them. 2) Install aileron gap seals. 3) Remove the teardrop fairings that are popriveted under your wings near the main landing gear, do the brake caliper rotation mod, and remove your aluminum lower gear doors and replace them with the lower profile fiberglass version that Mooney used in later production. 4) Remove any no-longer-needed antennas and properly flush patch any old antenna holes. 5) Make sure your tanks are solid with no leaks. 6) Now is a good time to replace your windshield if it needs it. Tell Joe not to paint your antennas and to protect them from paint stripper. Jim I would add doing the step fairing or removing step. Also repositioning elt antenna under the dorsal fin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 I have a 77 J that is pretty stock, aero-wise, other than a Scimitar prop. It cruises as fast as most of the reports here for good cruise speeds, so I haven't been motivated to do any speed mods yet. Compare pics of the current or recent models and maybe do what's been updated from the factory, which isn't a lot. I was looking at maybe doing wing root fairings until I realized the new ones don't really even have that. I think a good prop and a healthy motor are the primary speed mods. One thing I would recommend, though, is doing the ram air delete while you're at it. Plug the hole in the cowl and finish and paint it with the rest of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, 201er said: Not true. It gives you a 0.25" MP boost worth about 2-3% power and around 5HP. That's about 3kts of speed for nothing. How is 1% more MP 2-3% more power and conversely how is that worth 3kt? Maybe 1kt rounded up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, teejayevans said: Can they repair the ailerons with minor hail damage? No. And reskinning then warps then and they don’t guarantee against that. New is the best bet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, jetdriven said: How is 1% more MP 2-3% more power and conversely how is that worth 3kt? Maybe 1kt rounded up. My JPI is set up to show % power and it registers a 2-3% increase in power after opening the ram air. This airplane makes close to 1mph per 1hp so a 4-6hp increase should be worth around 3kts and that is about the speed increase I see on the GPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Other War Eagle's nest items... Some of the newest War Eagles mentioned in this thread, will be graduating this year... Somewhere around here is a pic of a Mooney over the Auburn stadium. Probably with a new Hawk paint job, flying a few knot faster than before.... Fill us in with before and after pics. During pics are often appreciated! Don’t forget the hard data. Before and after data rules! i forgot Tom ask.... are you an engineer? If yes, what type? We have a few engineers around here as well... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, jetdriven said: Wow - that would be great for IFR training! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, jetdriven said: No. And reskinning then warps then and they don’t guarantee against that. New is the best bet I'd only reskin at one or two places that has the proper jigs. Henry Weber reskinned mine but to avoid warping had to replace the top and bottom of one of the ailerons (old hangar rash). They came out pretty. It was several (like 6-8) weeks to get the skins from Mooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Williams inc wanted a lot of money and they “stood behind their work” but when I asked about bow and twist he said they are all different and when I tried to pin him down he said they don’t guarantee that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Not true. It gives you a 0.25" MP boost worth about 2-3% power and around 5HP. That's about 3kts of speed for nothing. Subtract out the extra drag from the hole in your cowling you have net 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 No. And reskinning then warps then and they don’t guarantee against that. New is the best bet I don’t understand what you’re saying?How much is new ailerons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney in Oz Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Another reason to get rid of the ram air is if you have it open and enter cloud in icing conditions, only needs to be light ice, it opens up a high risk of stopping your engine. Your engine will not restart until you have escaped those conditions. Just ask me how I know! It was the most essential mod when my Mooney was repainted. Victor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcb Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Breaking the bank is a relative term. Can someone say Lo Presti Cowl $16,000! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 5 hours ago, teejayevans said: I don’t understand what you’re saying? How much is new ailerons? When you get your ailerons back from the shop reskinned, and set them on a dead flat table, ands they have 3/8" or 1/2" of twist or bow, they wont re-do them. You'll pay to re-rig your plane and it will be slower, but you saved 3 grand. my new ailerons were 7K, 4 years ago. And they had to make 4. Of the first two, one was dog eared and bent in shipping becuase it was loose in a box and the other had 1/4" of bow in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAuburnFan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Thanks for all the replies. I am already adding a new windshield to the project. My inner main gear doors are a little rough. Repair or replacement is a decision I need to make. The ELT antenna in the dorsal fairing is interesting. Blade type VOR antennas will depend on cost. I really wish changing the overhead vent system to the newer style wasn’t such a chore and expense. The air brake up top is pretty primitive. Finally, I’m torn with ram air delete. Giving up ANY power is a tough sell. Thanks again all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 The overhead vent system is much better, and quieter. Just have to get the whole kit of stuff from a crashed 201 or 231. also, get Shawn to fill those rivet rows below the rear windows, he remember what to do. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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