Looking for some upgrade advice

[Yooper Rocketman]

Well, my standby electric attitude indicator went TU a couple weeks ago for the third time since I bought my Rocket, the last rebuild just 2 years ago at the most.  I spent $1200 ten years ago and $900 the last time to fix it, and was advised to replace it with a Garmin G5.  Since the plane will go on the market before this year is out (when the Lancair is done), I really don't want get a lot of money in it I can't recover, but then fixing outdated instruments is likely to be a worse choice than installing something that will get me, at least, some of my money back.  So..........I committed to the G5 and just haven't got it into the schedule yet, especially since I have a couple more flights to our Florida home in the next two months planned.

So...I flew to Green Bay yesterday, visiting my best friend Steve who almost died in the hospital this past weekend (looking better after emergency surgery Saturday and should recover completely),  and flying two ILS approaches, the autopilot wouldn't capture glide scope.  Fortunately, I had my KX155 dialed in as well, and hand flew both approaches, but caught the glide scope bars are not coming into view on the HSI on the last approach, clearly the reason the A/P is not capturing glide scope.  The localizer captured fine, just no glide scope.

I talked with Chad today at Kubick Aviation, and he is suggesting if we find it's not in the GNS530 (then actually a HSI issue) I should consider a two G5 update, as the HSI repair would cover a bunch of the second G5 cost.  But when I asked him about redundancy (my Flight Director would get removed too, and where do I get a second A/I?), he was too busy to think that through and give me an answer (I was busy too, getting ready to head out tomorrow for Florida).   Another advantage of this system is eliminating the vacuum pump, a second failure point, but I'm really not liking a lack a second attitude indication.  

What am I missing here?

Tom

[Stanton R]

If you have a King autopilot you will not be able to get rid of the flight director. 

[Godfather]

As Stanton mentioned the G5 cannot replace the primary AI if it currently has a flight director. Also I’m not sure if you rocket is FIKI certified but the G5 can’t be installed with that certification. I purchased one and had to sell it because of the FIKI issue. 

However, one option is to only replace the hsi with the G5 which could still be used in case of an emergency as a AI. It would also take care of your Gs issue. 

[Yooper Rocketman]

My Rocket has TKS , but is not FIKI, so that’s not an issue.  I DO have a Flight Director that drives my KFC 150.   

So the HSI “could” be replaced by a G5?  That’s an interesting option. I will have to check out the G/S issue when I head back home in a couple weeks as I guess this will be the determining factor on what to do. 

Thanks 

Tom

[bradp]

Yes Tom - the G5 can replace your HSI.  Your flight director AI would have to remain front and center (ie you wouldn’t be able to stack two G5’s to make like an Aspen) but you could do one of two things:

1) plumb a single G5 HSI to your pitot static. keep your FD AI, replace your standby AI with a turn coordinator.  This way you still have an electronic attitude indicator as a backup.  Downside is that you’d lose your HSI presentation and just get crossbar loc/gps data if the $hit actually hit the fan and you need to rely on your unofficial backup g5 AI/TC.  Upside is this is probably the most cost effective “upgrade” solution and you’d get GPSS for your autopilot.  *Most cost effective solution overall would be to fix the likely connection issue between your 530 and HSI/autopilot (hopefully not the 530 itself) and overhaul your standby.  But there might be better value in replacing the HSI with a piece of reliable kit with a 4 hr battery. 

2) Ditch standby AI, keep FD AI front and center and install G5 as HSI and a second as a “turn coordinator”   . This is the only STC legal way to do a dual G5 with a flight director and have two PFDs (FD AI and G5 with one HSI).  

Btw most AP connections to a 430/530 are Split from the vertical and lateral navigation signals (+/-) at the 530 and one split wire goes to the autopilot and the other split wire goes to your CDI.  So it’s not surprising that both the HSI and autopilot aren’t working and I’d gather that your KX-155 is on a separate CDI (ie no switch for Nav1 and Nav2 on the HSI).  The hope is that it’s a wire and not the Nav board.   It should be super easy to diagnose with a set of spare 530/HSI at the avionics shop and/or some test leads.  

I’m about to diy another G5 HSI to a century autopilot, I’ve read the install manual STC cover to cover and I’m probably as familiar with these things as most small avionics shops at this point ... am happy to help in whatever way I can.  

[Yooper Rocketman]

Thanks Brad.  We are planning on isolating the problem by changing out the 530 and then the HSI to see which component ( or a wiring issue) is the culprit.  Will post more when we get back to the U.P. 

Tom

[Yooper Rocketman]

I got home late last week so did some testing this morning on my Glide Slope indication issue on my HSI.  I had flown 3 ILS approaches since the problem surfaced and it was consistent every time; no command bars for Glide Slope and no A/P capture.  This morning, with a different Garmin 530, the command bars came into view on the approach and the A/P captured and flew down to minimums (VFR conditions obviously).  I put my 530 back in and, just to make sure this wasn't an intermittent issue that coincided with me swapping out the 530's, I flew one more approach; no command bars, no A/P capture.  Based on this testing, Chad at Kubick Aviation ordered me a recon 530, as he noted it doesn't matter if we send mine in or get another one that Garmin has reconditioned other than we won't lose as much time waiting on mine coming back (supposedly the same price).

It appears my HSI is fine so all I want to do is replace the back-up electric AI.  Reviewing the installation instructions (Chad let me look through them) I think I understand I must replace the TC with the G5 to meet the STC requirements (not the standby electric AI)?  Can I relocate the "now removed" TC to replace the standby AI like @bradpnoted below?  I hate to just have a blocked off hole in the panel where the standby AI was.  I've attached a picture of my panel showing the location of my current standby AI (in the old ADF head location and not part of the standard 6-pack configuration).  Not shown in the picture to the left are my TC and airspeed indicator.

On 3/3/2018 at 11:49 PM, bradp said:

1) plumb a single G5 HSI to your pitot static. keep your FD AI, replace your standby AI with a turn coordinator.  This way you still have an electronic attitude indicator as a backup.  Downside is that you’d lose your HSI presentation and just get crossbar loc/gps data if the $hit actually hit the fan and you need to rely on your unofficial backup g5 AI/TC.  Upside is this is probably the most cost effective “upgrade” solution and you’d get GPSS for your autopilot. 

Tom

[MIm20c]

People are able to install the G5 as the required backup to the aspen display from many installers. I think if you ask the shop nicely they might let pick the mount location as yours is not a required item. If it was me I’d bump my altimeter over or down and put the G5 to the right of the 256. 

[carusoam]

Tom,

see if I got this right...

Adding a G5 to the existing panel...

TC is still in the plane.  It is just outside the panel picture to the left.  The current inoperative standby AI is in the position of a previously removed ADF indicator.

The G5 has to be technically capable of being a back-up instrument for the existing BK AI... and have the ball to cover the TC’s extra coordination skill...

We have a guy that knows some things about mounting G5s around here.

Let’s see if we can invite him to the discussion.... @Aerodon

Aerodon, are you familiar with this level of detail for the G5?

 

Best regards,

-a-

 

(Updated to include Tom’s TC comments below...)

 

 

[rpcc]

There's a thread around here where someone was commenting that there are  mid continent AI's available sub 1k prices due to swap outs for glass panel work  - check barnstormers etc.   If I was selling the plane in the short term that would be the route I'd look at.  

[Yooper Rocketman]

5 hours ago, carusoam said:

Tom,

see if I got this right...

Adding a G5 to the existing panel...

The TC has already been swapped out by the other electric AI.

The G5 has to be technically capable of being a back-up instrument for the existing BK AI... and have the ball to cover the TC’s extra coordination skill...

Best regards,

-a-

A,

No, the TC is still in the plane.  I noted in my last post it is just outside the panel picture to the left.  The current inoperative standby AI is in the position of a previously removed ADF indicator.

 

19 minutes ago, rpcc said:

There's a thread around here where someone was commenting that there are  mid continent AI's available sub 1k prices due to swap outs for glass panel work  - check barnstormers etc.   If I was selling the plane in the short term that would be the route I'd look at.  

Thanks for that info but, frankly, too late.  My avionics shop already ordered and has received my G5.  I'm not going to back out on that decision now.

Tom

[MIm20c]

IMO the STC identifies the two legal install positions if replacing one of the standard gauges. All other gauges must be kept in the current location which is subjective because of the vast number of shotgun panels out there.

options IMO

1. Follow the stc and place the G5 in the T&B location moving that instrument to the old adf location. 

2. Place the G5 in the altimeter location and drop current instrument down or diagonal to empty spot. 

3. Swap out the old backup AI with the G5. It is not a backup in this situation it is just another panel with flashing lights to keep you awake in flight. IMO the experimental version should be legal to install in this location.