Larry

Correct battery

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3 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Any A&P can make a "minor modification" with just a log entry.  The debate is what a "minor modification", but they do not require any STC or authorization from the manufacturer.

IIRC, "minor modification" is anything that would not be expected to substantially affect the flight characteristics, structure, controls or any systems, and the modifications have to based on "acceptable data" (as in AC43.19).  Anything else is a "major modification," that requires a 337 and needs to be based on "Approved data" (as in an STC or TCDS).  I don't remember the exact wording though. 

I read this as changing a battery for a similar sized and performing battery of the same voltage would be a minor modification.  The battery box is a trickier question, though--I'd read removing the battery box as not expected to affect the structure or electrical system.

Concorde batteries carry an STC , and that is why they are legal...  The battery box is not a minor ,  If it is not the correct part # it is not legal , without an STC , or manufacturers authorization ,...... As an A&P , I would not sign off on it as a minor...... As far as traveling up the line of the type cert , An M-20 , is on the same type cert as the brand new plane is (2A3) you cannot arbitrarily put newer parts on an older airframe , I ran into this when I put the C rudder bellcrank  on a B model , I had to get auth from the manufacturer , ( a letter from Bill Wheat) ...

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16 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Any A&P can make a "minor modification" with just a log entry.  The debate is what a "minor modification", but they do not require any STC or authorization from the manufacturer.

IIRC, "minor modification" is anything that would not be expected to substantially affect the flight characteristics, structure, controls or any systems, and the modifications have to based on "acceptable data" (as in AC43.19).  Anything else is a "major modification," that requires a 337 and needs to be based on "Approved data" (as in an STC or TCDS).  I don't remember the exact wording though. 

I read this as changing a battery for a similar sized and performing battery of the same voltage would be a minor modification.  The battery box is a trickier question, though--I'd read removing the battery box as not expected to affect the structure or electrical system.

The definition is quite clear. The interpretation of this is not so clear. Another thing, the FAA produced an AC that allows substitution of parts on vintage aircraft. With restrictions of course but a little more leeway because frequently parts are  obsolete, or not available. All Mooney airplanes qualify for that too.  

 

14 CFR Part 1.1

Major alteration means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications -

(1) That might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or

(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.

Minor alteration means an alteration other than a major alteration.  

Edited by jetdriven

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Here's Cliffy!!  :-)

1 pound is the threshold for a W&B recalc. Its in Part 43. 

A battery can be installed with a battery box by using Part 43 for "Approved Data" for the 337. Its in there. Load calcs need to be done. 

The weight change is not just the battery but everything added on- box, structure, battery,  rivets, position shift, etc. 

If its just a battery change for a higher capacity one might also need to look at loads to see if the original structure can sustain the added weight of the new battery. This might involve a call to the factory to see if they allowed for the heavier battery in the installation.

"IF" the J came from the factory without a box and with a sealed battery and an IA has an issue one needs to go to the factory for guidance if none can be found in the MM or Parts manual.  Going back over 20 years and this issue just now comes up seems a little strange to me. Someone somewhere has the answer at the factory or LASAR or 1 or 2 others. 

One also needs to check to see what TSO the airplane and battery was certified to. If the certified TSO matches the TSO of the new battery then it might be done with just a 337. I've attached the Concord data on this

 

http://www.concordebattery.com/batterytsoexplained.php

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Back to the OP, do you have an equipment list for the aircraft? If a Gill 243 is listed on the original list it is approved. The parts catalog doesn't list a KX-170B but you won't see an STC for it either if it was installed when the aircraft was certified.

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On 2/27/2018 at 6:48 PM, Larry said:

I have a later 201 serial #24-3149.  It was delivered from Mooney without a battery box using a Gill243 manifold vented battery.  The problem is that Concorde, Gill, the TCDS and the Parts manual all call for serial numbers between 3000 - 3200 to have a battery box and a Gill 242.  Has anyone else had this issue?  If so, how did you handle it?

Thanks,

Larry

I spoke with Concorde and they have STCs and batterys that come with a mounting plate for the batteries of planes that don't require a battery box.  My 78J had a box so I'm replacing my corroded box with a serviceable one and a sealed Concorde 35-axc battery.  I would call Concord with your serial number and I bet they can help.  

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As stated in the original post, my plane came from the factory with a Gill 243, which does not require a battery box.  It was a flooded battery, but was designed with a dam, an aluminum cap and a vent nipple to save the airframe manufacturer from making a box.  My plane was not listed in the correct area of Concorde's STC or in the Mooney parts catalog.  A call to Mooney was met quickly and efficiently with the factory drawings (the specification that is used with each plane in order to account for changes) which shows the exact point at which Mooney changed the J to the G243.  They also supplied an SI that allows the owners of G243 equipped aircraft to change to the Concorde RG24-11M or RG24-15.

I received the contact info from a MS lister and I couldn't have received better service from the factory on an airframe that left 28 years ago.  If anyone needs the above info for their J  (SN 24-3076 - 24-3218) let me know and I'll send it.

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