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ElectroAir Update


Bob - S50

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22 hours ago, jetdriven said:

This one? It has Slick mags where an impulse coupler rivet sheared, releasing parts into the accessory case. It cites several others too, all Slick.  https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001208X08272&ntsbno=ANC97FA097&akey=1

Yes, thats the one. All this time I was under impression it was the Bendix dual mag, the gal flying is now a captain at the airlines, cant remember which one.

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6 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

It shouldnt complain at all.  Mine will happily run at 2100, not that i ever do, but it will run at 2100/24 without any issue.

I'm probably just a sensitive kind of guy.  It will run, but I hear/feel a definite difference.  My personal preference is to keep the RPM up if I need significant power.  Even I use lower RPM for slowing down and entering the pattern.  I just don't do it with high MP settings.

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I'm probably just a sensitive kind of guy.  It will run, but I hear/feel a definite difference.  My personal preference is to keep the RPM up if I need significant power.  Even I use lower RPM for slowing down and entering the pattern.  I just don't do it with high MP settings.

I feel the same thing, it seems like at 2300-2600 is the sweet spot, it feels like a car when go up hill in high gear.
If you pull power back does it feel better?
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1 hour ago, N231BN said:
On 2/28/2018 at 7:16 AM, Bob - S50 said:
It starts to rumble instead of purr.

Any chance you have a 3-blade prop?

But you know, it could be that I don't adjust the mixture after I leave cruise altitude.  I've never tried enriching the mixture to a ROP setting and it could possibly be one cylinder getting a bit too lean.  Or one getting significantly more rich that the others.  Maybe I'll give that a try next time.  However, I'd swear we get more blow-by and oil consumption when we use lower RPM combined with higher MP.

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8 minutes ago, teejayevans said:


I feel the same thing, it seems like at 2300-2600 is the sweet spot, it feels like a car when go up hill in high gear.
If you pull power back does it feel better?

Exactly.  Like lugging an engine by shifting gear too soon.  Glad it's not just me.  Sweet spot for me for higher power settings is 2400+ RPM.  Yes, I have no problems flying low RPM with low power, say <20" MP.

Edited by Bob - S50
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2 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

I just keep the revs at 2500 and only use the MP (except on final when the prop obviously goes fully fine).  So 2500/20 will slow me to 135 so I can lower the gear, which slows me to flap speed so i lower one stage so i can see over the nose.  Then increase, decrease MP accordingly, single lever operation (almost :) )

 

Yep, I've found I can fly an instrument approach essentially pretending I have a fixed pitch prop set to 2600 RPM.  I just have to pull the throttle sooner (to 13 - 15") to slow to gear speed.  However, I typically will pull the power to 15" and then drop the RPM to about 2200 to slow down for the approach or visual pattern.  That will usually get me down to something around 105 KIAS or so.  I then stay clean until I'm abeam the numbers or about a half mile from the FAF on an approach.  Once the gear is down, the flaps come down, the prop control comes full forward and I fly my fixed pitch prop Mooney from there to the runway.

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1 hour ago, Bob - S50 said:

Once the gear is down, the flaps come down, the prop control comes full forward and I fly my fixed pitch prop Mooney from there to the runway.

I usually wind up doing the Mike Bush thing where the throttle goes to wide open for take off and never gets pulled back until slowing for the pattern or approach.   Power settings are all prop and mixture adjustments.

A little while ago my MP gauge failed on a trip and it was not a big deal at all, since once in the pattern or on approach the prop goes full forward and I fly rpm like a fixed-pitch prop, partly to keep it out of the yellow range on the tach.   It did help me decide to just ditch the MP gauge completely once the EDM 900 goes in.   The vacuum leak from the broken tube made it where I couldn't pull the power back all the way, which makes Mooney very difficult to land.    Afterward, of course, it occurred to me that I could have pulled it back with the mixture control, but I always think of that stuff too late.

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I talked to ElectroAir just now at the Southwest Aviation Maintenance Symposium. The dual mag replacement is scheduled for Oshkosh. It will cost $6000. It does not have a mag per se, it has a 20 amp generator with a pickup. It will have an electronic module that will fire the four plugs through individual coils screwed onto the spark plugs. The other four will use the current ElectroAir system. They will next try to get the new mag replacement certified for all aircraft and eventually using the individual coil on plug technology for both sides of the dual mag.

Edited by N201MKTurbo
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On 3/2/2018 at 10:57 AM, Hyett6420 said:

ah we have an airline Pilot as a sharee (new word just invented it), and he and I are VERY much into Standard Operating Procedures, so we have a rule, that you HAVE to slow to gear speed then first stage flaps speed 10 miles out (VFR, IFR is a different ball game), this allows your brain to slow down to the speed that everyone else is travelling and you don't get  that situation you get when you come off the motorway at 85 straight into a 40 zone and your brain is still going at 85 and you want to overtake everyone.  It actually loses you 40 seconds, ive worked it out, but it makes a better,  safer, pilot if you have less hours. 

10 miles out.. I’m going 190kts. 4 miles out I’m going 190kts. The airplane slows down just fine just give it a 3 mile level segment. 

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On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 2:41 PM, Bob - S50 said:

4 plugs would be powered by the new magneto and would operate during total electrical failure.  The other 4 would be electronically controlled and would rely on electrical power from the normal electrical system.  And this system is not for those who have 2 separate magneto.  It's for those of us that have the single dual magneto.

So before with the dual mag there was no mag failure if electrical power was lost but with the new mag you loose a mag if you loose electrical power. So what is the advantage of the new mag. On an oceanic flight loosing a magneto is not a trivial thing, even for a twin. $6,000 for this mod!!!!! I would rather have the $50 pilot relief tube.

José

Edited by Piloto
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9 minutes ago, Piloto said:

So before with the dual mag there was no mag failure if electrical power was lost but with the new mag you loose a mag if you loose electrical power. So what is the advantage of the new mag. On an oceanic flight loosing a magneto is not a trivial thing, even for a twin. $6,000 for this mod!!!!! I would rather have the $50 pilot relief tube.

José

That's not what I was told. He said that both would be powered by the generator. There would be ships power attached to the system to power it for starting, but after the generator started making power it would power both systems.

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36 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That's not what I was told. He said that both would be powered by the generator. There would be ships power attached to the system to power it for starting, but after the generator started making power it would power both systems.

And I assume if the new 20A generator dies it will automatically switch over to ships power?

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So, electronic ignition, certified, with a 'free' backup alternator. For $6000... That sounds great. Presumably you'd have to do a bit of re-wiring to create an essential bus for the critical avionics but that's a small price to pay. Now, if I only had money and a flyable plane.

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2 hours ago, jetdriven said:

For $6000 I’m not sure the benefit here outweighs the cost. You’re  trading one magic box in one for another kind of magic box in one. 

Well, it depends on whether or not it actually provides improved performance, how often it needs to be serviced, and how much that service costs.  For example, if I only have to service it every 2000 hours and it costs $2000 to do that, and if it allows me to save .25 GPH for the same speed, that would save me 500 gallons of gas during the 2000 hours ($2500) and avoid paying for 4 $1500 inspections ($6000), it would pay for itself in a bit less than 2000 hours.

It will be interesting to see if it actually improves performance or not.

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3 hours ago, N231BN said:
4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:
Good question. I'll ask him tomorrow.

Also ask him to move the coils away from the cylinders, it will save them a lot of hassle.

He said the individual coils are barely bigger than the nuts with just low voltage wires running to the coils. The latest automotive technology that everyone is asking for.

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Sounds like we could be eliminating some of the high voltage issues inside the mag, from random discharges at altitude, to Ozone destroyed plastic gears... those improvements would be helpful... any use of platinum with the thin wire spark plugs?

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

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It sounds like a good idea, I would be worried about heat soak after shut down. Much hotter than a liquid cooled car engine. Down the road when they add the other four plugs they will be sitting next to the exhaust system. We've all seen what that does to spark plugs.

I wish them luck, this is 90's technology that has been a long time coming for aviation.

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11 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

He said the individual coils are barely bigger than the nuts with just low voltage wires running to the coils. The latest automotive technology that everyone is asking for.

Hmmmm.  I have those on my 2011 BMW and have had them fail twice in 30000 miles.

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Two more updates.

He said it will run off of ships power if the generator fails.

He showed me the current engineering setup of the individual coils. They are bigger than I thought. They are intending the coils to be mounted on one of the valve cover screws. They would be mounted on the valve cover.

Im not sure they will fit in the cowl like that. 

We will have to wait and see.

BTW,  I won a Gill RG35 battery as a door prize. Anybody need a battery? I'll make you a screaming deal.

Edited by N201MKTurbo
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