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Should I or Shouldn't I


Jvancecpa

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Ok.  I sold the M20J, the best equipped J in the world in December since I decided I was done with flying!  Now, my wife and I are looking at a beach home in Florida and it is a 7 hour drive or 1 1/2 hours in an Ovation.  I am looking at a 2008 Ovation3.  Now, it doesn't have WAAS, VNAV, SVT, traffic and is not ADS-B compliant.  My former Mooney Ovation2GX that I sold before the J Model had all of those features just was not a 310hp conversion.  This aircraft does have A/C which is why I am considering it.  So, will I be happy with this airplane (in comparison to what I have had) without the aforementioned equipment?  I am thinking about adding the SVT and a 345-R transponder.  SVT is necessary for me so that is a given.  Will the 345R be "adequate" for traffic and weather and whatever else it offers?  Also, any idea what the SVT update will cost?  I was told around $12,000 if the G1000 has the appropriate "cards" whatever that means.  All comments appreciated.  Thanks.

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Welcome to the O club.

Keep both eyes open while reviewing the specs.  2008 was a tough year...

you will want to know if you have WAAS capability or need to add it.  What the costs will be if you need to add it...

2020 ADSB or not...

Three options that are nice to have, but have weight...

  • A/C
  • Built in O2
  • Fiki anti ice

Often preferred powerplant options...

  • 310 hp
  • Thin bladed TopProp (or composite if you like)

PP Stuff off the top of my head...

Best regards,

-a-

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9 hours ago, Jvancecpa said:

Ok.  I sold the M20J, the best equipped J in the world in December since I decided I was done with flying!  Now, my wife and I are looking at a beach home in Florida and it is a 7 hour drive or 1 1/2 hours in an Ovation.  I am looking at a 2008 Ovation3.  Now, it doesn't have WAAS, VNAV, SVT, traffic and is not ADS-B compliant.  My former Mooney Ovation2GX that I sold before the J Model had all of those features just was not a 310hp conversion.  This aircraft does have A/C which is why I am considering it.  So, will I be happy with this airplane (in comparison to what I have had) without the aforementioned equipment?  I am thinking about adding the SVT and a 345-R transponder.  SVT is necessary for me so that is a given.  Will the 345R be "adequate" for traffic and weather and whatever else it offers?  Also, any idea what the SVT update will cost?  I was told around $12,000 if the G1000 has the appropriate "cards" whatever that means.  All comments appreciated.  Thanks.

According to the Garmin representative who posts on Beechtalk,  as of December 31, 2017 there are no more WAAS upgrades to the G1000 for Beechcraft airplanes since Garmin's Nxi is out now.  

Page three on https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=149131&hilit=G1000&start=30 

and https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=149456&hilit=G1000

 

Why is that important? If that was to happen with Mooney,  it would l leave you without vertical guidance on GPS approaches. Seeing that on Beechtalk, and knowing that at some point support will end, if I owned a G1000 Mooney that I was planning on keeping, I wouldn't waste a lot of time upgrading to WAAS. The upgrade to WAAS swaps out the GIA63's for GIA63W's. If I remember correctly, somewhere in the $25,000 range. Without this upgrade, it would significantly impact what the airplane would be worth down the road. As you probably know the G1000 is tied to the type certificate on the airplane so you can't pull it out and put other avionics in its place. It is possible Mooney/Garmin will offer an Nxi upgrade path which would get you WAAS. Beechcraft owners haven't been told whether there will be a way to upgrade their G1000's to Nxi, but if there is it should be around $60,000. (https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=141286&hilit=Nxi)

Piper offered the Nxi upgrade to existing owners but didn't announce price. http://www.piper.com/piper-m500-and-m350-certified-with-garmin-g1000-nxi/

You might still be able to get SVT since that is just a software addition.

The GTX 345R should get you ADS-B compliance if you go with the model that has the WAAS built in to the transponder (of course this will still not get you WAAS on the G1000, but it will get you ADS-B out and traffic on the G1000 if I understand correctly). The prices I heard were around $7000 installed. That does not get you weather on the G1000, but you do have XM available on the G1000 for a subscription fee.

 

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On 2/21/2018 at 8:15 PM, Jvancecpa said:

All comments appreciated.  Thanks.

If you're Mission is 1-1/2 hours each way, this airplane should fit the mission for a lot less money and will get you there at the exact same time:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/22934371/1997-mooney-m20r-ovation

It has the 310hp STC.

It has WAAS so it will do GPS approaches with vertical guidance

It has SVT.

It has Air Conditioning.

For $100,000 or more less than the 2008 it will get you there just as fast and your avionics won't be tied to the Airplane's type certificate so down the road you can upgrade to the latest and greatest at that time.

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This is getting confusing.  Seems everyone I speak with has a different take on my needs and/or wants.  Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the input.  Just confusing.  It seems the consensus is do not add WAAS to the existing G1000 as it is too expensive and not worth the cost.  I really liked WAAS in my J Model with G600 and GTN750.  Was also told that if I add SVT, it will not be as "clear and defined" as it would be with the WAAS installed.  Was told to watch out for the 345R as it doesn't work well in the tail of the airplane.  (I have read that in other posts).  So, should I wait for an airplane with all the goodies?  Should I find an older Ovation with air and put all of the new Garmin "stuff" in it?  Or should I re-retire from flying, AGAIN!!  Keep the comments coming and I'll keep reading.  All are appreciated. 

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I would personally do what @lancecasper and find an 97 to 02 ovation and just upgrade the shit out of it. The  O's I found are selling for about 160 to 180, and most O3 start at 300. add another 50-60ish to get it WAAS, SVT, and ADS-B (this number could be wrong, but from what I've heard its insanely expensive to get WAAS, ADS-B, SVT, ETC.) that's a difference of nearly 200 grand. for 200 grand, you can get an ovation/eagle, repaint it, redo the interior, add a g600 txi, gtn750, gtn650, a 345r, and do the 310 STC with the $25K plastic prop, and still have money left over. the only difference is, you'll have a plane with a paint scheme you want, an interior you want, with avionics you want, and can easily switch out when they become old. 

These are PP thoughts only. I do not own a Mooney, But hopefull within the next couple months I will own an Ovation, and I plan to go down the route I just recommended.

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1 hour ago, Jvancecpa said:

This is getting confusing.  Seems everyone I speak with has a different take on my needs and/or wants.  Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the input.  Just confusing.  It seems the consensus is do not add WAAS to the existing G1000 as it is too expensive and not worth the cost.  I really liked WAAS in my J Model with G600 and GTN750.  Was also told that if I add SVT, it will not be as "clear and defined" as it would be with the WAAS installed.  Was told to watch out for the 345R as it doesn't work well in the tail of the airplane.  (I have read that in other posts).  So, should I wait for an airplane with all the goodies?  Should I find an older Ovation with air and put all of the new Garmin "stuff" in it?  Or should I re-retire from flying, AGAIN!!  Keep the comments coming and I'll keep reading.  All are appreciated. 

I would put a Garmin GTX345 in the one in the link that I sent you - that gives you ADS-B in/out. You have the dual Aspen with SVT. Put the rest of the money away for at least a year until the desire to spend it subsides. You may need it on this project down the road  or you may need it later in life.

The return on investment on avionics is just barely better than taking it and lighting a match to it . . lol

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JV,

you might want to start a bullet list...

What you want, don’t want, and don’t need.

It gets confusing if you don’t.

The O can have everything you want, you just run out of money or UL, by the time you click on all the boxes...

The early G1000 Systems are nice, but require a very expensive WAAS upgrade to have that skill.  Some have been through the upgrade process already...

There is at least one thread for each of the various options or upgrades.

If you fly IFR, you are going to want WAAS and ADSB out for 2020...

O list....

  • built in O2
  • air conditioning
  • Fiki anti ice
  • 310hp w/ Acclaim’s Top Prop
  • G1000 w/ WAAS upgrades
  • a GTN or two
  • There are a whole bunch of options not listed here because the O comes standard with these.  
  • If you go M20S, you will want to review the list of options they left out.
  • The oldest Os have a lot of BK in the panel...
  • 345Rs have a known antenna challenge for WiFi/BT(?) in the back.  It also has a solution around here as well.

If you want a very modern panel, look up the panel photos posted by Steven757 and Don Kaye.

Retiring from flying is not an option, investing in planes is not an option...  :)

Do you have a budget to work from? 200 to 300 amu?

Does that help?

Best regards,

-a-

 

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Yes, that does help along with everyone's input.  I have contacted the shop that did my panel in the Baron I restored (check out Beechtalk for that long, long story) to get his input on a few upgrades on an older Ovation with air and 310 upgrade.  My required list would include air, glass panel and good autopilot.  I don't normally fly a lot of IFR but always feel more comfortable with a good autopilot backup.  Actually I am the backup and the autopilot does the flying!  I will keep searching and again appreciate all the help.  I will keep the Mooney World informed.  Thanks.

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1 minute ago, LANCECASPER said:

(mental note . .  talk him into an Acclaim and have him upgrade it to Nxi, put a new engine in it & re-paint it & wait a few months until he gets tired of it . . )

:D:D My wife did tell me that I better get EXACTLY what I want if I do this and it better be the last one!!  Yea, right!!

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You can get ADSB out solutions with an GPS on board and the prices are not too bad, that said, if it were me I would want the WAAS definitely.  It would make or break the decision to buy the plane.  Its been a long time since I have dealt with a non-WAAS GPS, but don’t you have to do a RAIM calcualtion for each flight, and determine that the alternate non-GPS sources of navigation along the route are working?  It was a pain.  For most of the rural airports in the upper midwest, the RNAV approaches are the only good ones, and WAAS makes the difference between flying it with the AP like a couple ILS with a GS, and having to do it by hand.

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3 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

Lance and I are on the same page.

So...what do YOU really want?

And just to stir the pot...  https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/21809893/2008-mooney-acclaim

Steve

Perfect - buy this, add air conditioning, WAAS and Nxi and then realize that you really don't enjoy flying that much and let it go for $.50 on the dollar :D

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