Bug with Flightstream loading route changes to Foreflight

[DXB]

Is anyone else using Flightstream to automatically load route changes made on their panel Garmin GPS?  It's a beautiful concept that potentially negates the need for a panel mfd, but I'm having some issues and see no published guidance to help.  I'm using Flightstream 210 to make my GTN 650 communicate with Foreflight on my Ipad.  Issues:

1.  Enroute: ATC shortens my route by sending me direct to a waypoint that is already part of the route.  I pull up the waypoint on the GTN650 and hit the direct button, and everything works great in the panel.  The ipad indicates loading the route from the panel but fails to display the new direct routing.  

2. Approach:  I load but don't activate an approach.  The ipad picks up the addition fine.  Then I activate direct to an IAF (not VTF), but the Ipad never seems to pick up the panel's direct routing to the fix correctly.  

The concept is terrific, but right now it's adding unwanted effort to fix the ipad display at high work load moments. How do I get the ipad to load precisely the active route in the GTN?  Sometimes it works great but it is often it is falling short in the above two scenarios.  

[Marauder]

Is anyone else using Flightstream to automatically load route changes made on their panel Garmin GPS?  It's a beautiful concept that potentially negates the need for a panel mfd, but I'm having some issues and see no published guidance to help.  I'm using Flightstream 210 to make my GTN 650 communicate with Foreflight on my Ipad.  Issues:
1.  Enroute: ATC shortens my route by sending me direct to a waypoint that is already part of the route.  I pull up the waypoint on the GTN650 and hit the direct button, and everything works great in the panel.  The ipad indicates loading the route from the panel but fails to display the new direct routing.  
2. Approach:  I load but don't activate an approach.  The ipad picks it up the addition fine.  Then I activate direct to an IAF (not VTF), but the Ipad never seems to pick up the panel's direct routing to the fix correctly.  
The concept is terrific, but right now it's adding unwanted workload to fix the ipad display at high work load moments. How do I get the ipad to load precisely the active route in the GTN?  Sometimes it works great but it is often it is falling short in the above two scenarios.  

These recent issues have me wondering what the heck is going on. Didn’t we recently see a thread involving bad position reporting on ForeFlight when connected to a GTX?

I use this feature on Garmin Pilot all the time. Works fine with one exception. Sometimes I get a message on the iPad that there is a new route being sent from the GTN to the app when there is nothing that should be sent.

Good luck. I would start with FF technical.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[DXB]

55 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

These recent issues have me wondering what the heck is going on. Didn’t we recently see a thread involving bad position reporting on ForeFlight when connected to a GTX?

I use this feature on Garmin Pilot all the time. Works fine with one exception. Sometimes I get a message on the iPad that there is a new route being sent from the GTN to the app when there is nothing that should be sent.

Good luck. I would start with FF technical.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

Yeah I just sent them an email. It has me wondering if I should sell my Stratus and switch to Garmin Pilot in hopes of a more precise interaction with the panel.

[DXB]

Update:  No solution yet after multiple detailed communications with Foreflight tech support - latest one below.  I hope they are going deep into the source code and not just throwing in the towel.  They do get an A+ for responsiveness and effort thus far, and so any switch to Garmin Pilot is on hold. They seem to be a very serious and well managed company on both the product innovation and customer support end - kind of inspiring actually.  No doubt that's what it takes currently given the number of choices for ipad apps.

What puzzles me is  that no one else has emerged with similar issues based on my postings both here and Beechtalk.  I'll feel bad for having wasted Foreflight's time if somehow it turns out to be a weird hardware glitch on my end.   

[ilovecornfields]

1 hour ago, DXB said:

Update:  No solution yet after multiple detailed communications with Foreflight tech support - latest one below.  I hope they are going deep into the source code and not just throwing in the towel.  They do get an A+ for responsiveness and effort thus far, and so any switch to Garmin Pilot is on hold. They seem to be a very serious and well managed company on both the product innovation and customer support end - kind of inspiring actually.  No doubt that's what it takes currently given the number of choices for ipad apps.

What puzzles me is  that no one else has emerged with similar issues based on my postings both here and Beechtalk.  I'll feel bad for having wasted Foreflight's time if somehow it turns out to be a weird hardware glitch on my end.   

I’ve had a similar problem. No problem sending from iPad to GTN, but changes on the GTN don’t always show up correctly on the iPad. It often truncates the flight plan. Sometimes when I hit direct to a fix on the approach it shows me going to the airport then back to the IAF. Sometimes, when I change the route on the GTN it will try to keep sending it to the iPad and I had to disable the auto-update feature on foreflight because this becomes annoying. Have FS 210 and GTN 750/650.

[DXB]

5 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

I’ve had a similar problem. No problem sending from iPad to GTN, but changes on the GTN don’t always show up correctly on the iPad. It often truncates the flight plan. Sometimes when I hit direct to a fix on the approach it shows me going to the airport then back to the IAF. Sometimes, when I change the route on the GTN it will try to keep sending it to the iPad and I had to disable the auto-update feature on foreflight because this becomes annoying. Have FS 210 and GTN 750/650.

YUP! That’s the problem, and your setup is very similar to mine. You might let Foreflight tech support know you have the same issue as me (case #227469) if you haven’t already.  They will tell you how to forward diagnostic info from your ipad to them. Hopefully info from multiple customers will help get the issue resolved.  

[kortopates]

I don't mean to sound overly naive about this but I think I understand your issue and it sounds like the its limited to approach waypoints? If so, I have never seen the value of my ipad showing me the specific approach waypoint routing while on the approach simply because I have my approach plate up  with my location shown. I am navigating off the GTN and CDI's on the GTN and G500 and just using the plane location on the iPad Approach plate for situational awareness. But really my use of the iPad is checking stepdown fixes minimums, MDA/DA or circling minimums, missed approach procedure etc. But really not to navigate ever. All of my navigation is done by the GTN's/G500.

I understand the value of having of the proper route on the ipad while in the enroute portion, since I can leverage the added utility while I have the time to do so. But once the approach is started I don't even accept the route changes on the iPad after activating the approach - it just seems superfluous and Iam too busy to mess with it. Its only being used as a EFB at that point. But then I do have a couple MFD's on the panel too. So am I missing something not having the actual approach routing on the iPad when we already have the georeferenced chart showing your position on the chart? The question is sincere since I work with a lot of pilots that only have a 430W or 650 on the panel to work with. 

[Marauder]

I don't mean to sound overly naive about this but I think I understand your issue and it sounds like the its limited to approach waypoints? If so, I have never seen the value of my ipad showing me the specific approach waypoint routing while on the approach simply because I have my approach plate up  with my location shown. I am navigating off the GTN and CDI's on the GTN and G500 and just using the plane location on the iPad Approach plate for situational awareness. But really my use of the iPad is checking stepdown fixes minimums, MDA/DA or circling minimums, missed approach procedure etc. But really not to navigate ever. All of my navigation is done by the GTN's/G500.

I understand the value of having of the proper route on the ipad while in the enroute portion, since I can leverage the added utility while I have the time to do so. But once the approach is started I don't even accept the route changes on the iPad after activating the approach - it just seems superfluous and Iam too busy to mess with it. Its only being used as a EFB at that point. But then I do have a couple MFD's on the panel too. So am I missing something not having the actual approach routing on the iPad when we already have the georeferenced chart showing your position on the chart? The question is sincere since I work with a lot of pilots that only have a 430W or 650 on the panel to work with. 

 

I suspect it is a feature and it isn’t working as advertised. Like buying a Porsche and it not able to go over 100 MPH. You know it should be able to do it but you also know you don’t need it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[kortopates]

50 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I suspect it is a feature and it isn’t working as advertised. Like buying a Porsche and it not able to go over 60 MPH.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

That's actually a good analogy if the issue going over 60 mph is limited to final approach, like a lower speed residential section. Admittedly I could very well be missing something more valuable which is why I ask. Don't mean too imply its a dangerous feature, but it does seems more like a distraction to me while on the approach. But I am curious.

[DXB]

The issue is not limited to just approach but extends to enroute changes. In absence of a real mfd,  I was hoping the system would be a CB way to achieve most of the same situational awareness benefit.  One can and should be able to function fine without it, but having the wrong info displayed may be worse than nothing at all, particularly during approach.  

[kortopates]

30 minutes ago, DXB said:

The issue is not limited to just approach but extends to enroute changes. In absence of a real mfd,  I was hoping the system would be a CB way to achieve most of the same situational awareness benefit.  One can and should be able to function fine without it, but having the wrong info displayed may be worse than nothing at all, particularly during approach.  

I totally understand while enroute. I would want that fixed too! I only question the utility in approach mode. For example, there is no feature in GP to load an approach anyway, which makes sense to me. But arrivals and departures can be loaded. I find the pop-up of the route change on GP that I click "Ignore" too after activating the approach distracting enough. But you may be getting utility I am unaware of.

[DXB]

2 hours ago, kortopates said:

I totally understand while enroute. I would want that fixed too! I only question the utility in approach mode. For example, there is no feature in GP to load an approach anyway, which makes sense to me. But arrivals and departures can be loaded. I find the pop-up of the route change on GP that I click "Ignore" too after activating the approach distracting enough. But you may be getting utility I am unaware of.

You're a vastly more advanced instrument pilot than I am (a 20hr IR student) so I suspect you're correct. Not seeing the approach at all on the ipad may be best.  

[bradp]

It’s definitel something lost in translation.  On my 660 (MFD) the graphical depiction is perfect.  On my foreflight it doesn’t “get” when you add an approach in where it should start the approach from. It will often go to the airport first and then create a leg to the first fix of the approach you loaded, then back to the Missed Approach Fix and then back to the airport.  It’s a mess.  The worst part is that the map on chart feature which is typically on the verge of being overly cluttered goes to unreadable with the zig zag of magenta and blue lines cluttering it. In the mean time I’ve stopped auto updating from the panel to foreflight  

I need  to see if 1) Garmin pilot does the same thing and 2) whether the same behavior occurs if I activate an approach from the get go instead of activating it separately.  

[DXB]

8 minutes ago, bradp said:

It’s definitel something lost in translation.  On my 660 (MFD) the graphical depiction is perfect.  On my foreflight it doesn’t “get” when you add an approach in where it should start the approach from. It will often go to the airport first and then create a leg to the first fix of the approach you loaded, then back to the Missed Approach Fix and then back to the airport.  It’s a mess.  The worst part is that the map on chart feature which is typically on the verge of being overly cluttered goes to unreadable with the zig zag of magenta and blue lines cluttering it. In the mean time I’ve stopped auto updating from the panel to foreflight  

I need  to see if 1) Garmin pilot does the same thing and 2) whether the same behavior occurs if I activate an approach from the get go instead of activating it separately.  

It really sounds like the same problem. Please consider emailing Foreflight tech support about it if you have a sec.  Maybe reference my case (#227469) so they are not starting from square one.  We've been going back and forth for a couple of weeks.  Approaches are a mess on mine similar to what you describe.  @kortopates may be right that the approach isn't worth seeing anyway on the ipad, but the way it does get displayed certainly could cause confusion at a high workload time.  The auto-update is at least nice for enroute (or at least it would be if mine didn't mess up there sometimes also) so I am reluctant to do away with it. I've also been reluctant to switch to Garmin and add an Area 660 or 796 and maintain databases on one more device because the ipad should theoretically provide very similar functionality. And according to @Marauder, Garmin Pilot doesn't have the same issue via Flightstream, so there's no good reason why Foreflight should.

[bradp]

@DXB I will email foreflight and reference your ticket number.  I finally found a picture or two that clearly shows the 430 navigator, what's showing on the 660 (and what would therefore be identical on the garmin pilot) and the discrepancy. 

Take care,

-Brad

[DXB]

3 hours ago, bradp said:

@DXB I will email foreflight and reference your ticket number.  I finally found a picture or two that clearly shows the 430 navigator, what's showing on the 660 (and what would therefore be identical on the garmin pilot) and the discrepancy. 

Take care,

-Brad

Thanks Brad

[bradp]

That was pretty quick. Mark from ForeFlight emailed back  indicating  that they have an engineering group working on the problem. They don’t have a timeframe as of yet, but they will let us know if they need additional data. Sometimes I wonder if I bother the ForeFlight people with my Frequent emails, but they are super responsive and are willing to consider ideas and concerns.