Marauder Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 Like all news reports, the terminology could have been misquoted. They may have meant to say “ATC had radio contact with a small plane and advised it had gone down. “I spent some time looking at the FlightAware data this afternoon. There was another partial Flight recorded on 1/24 where he was further west of KBVS and closer to the Sound. It makes me wonder if he believed he was over the Sound and didn’t realize he was over land. There doesn’t appear to be much on that hill, i.e. no lights or other indicators that he was over land. Either way, the whole situation is sobering. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 Sad ending. Another consideration is whether he was in radio and radar contact with ATC, whether he would have gotten a low altitude alert. Seems like an unfortunate loss of situational awareness. Things that could have helped: Knowing the MEF for the quadrant and respecting it until known clear of terrain. Treating night in an inhospitable terrain environment as "effective IMC"; flying airways and or overflying the approach could have helped. Staying SW of the hills and intercepting an extended runway centerline to stay west of the coastline could have helped. Even ded reckoning and pilotage to keep the coastal city lights in view ahead of the right wing could have kept away from the hills. Even if he did a magenta line from BVS to BLI and followed it he would have cleared the ridges. Goes without saying that any basic GPS navigator with terrain functionality could have helped. Of course, we'd like to learn something from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 I can't tell from the flightaware data if he was on an IFR flight plan or not. Unless he had adsb, presumably, the only way he'd show up on flightaware is if he was IFR, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, jaylw314 said: I can't tell from the flightaware data if he was on an IFR flight plan or not. Unless he had adsb, presumably, the only way he'd show up on flightaware is if he was IFR, no? If you are assigned a squawk on Flight Following you will show up on Flight Aware also. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but when you are on an IFR plan under the flight data section it will listed the filed speed, altitude, as well as route. There is none of that on any of his recent flights so I am assuming he was just on Flight Following. Here is the flight data from his flight. Here is the flight data from a recent IFR flight that one of our Mooniacs took. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Skates97 said: If you are assigned a squawk on Flight Following you will show up on Flight Aware also. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but when you are on an IFR plan under the flight data section it will listed the filed speed, altitude, as well as route. There is none of that on any of his recent flights so I am assuming he was just on Flight Following. Here is the flight data from his flight. Here is the flight data from a recent IFR flight that one of our Mooniacs took. If you have ADS-B out capability the "reporting facility" will typically denote the "ADS-B" at the end of the reporting facility whether you are IFR or VFR. If you are on an IFR flight plan and you are not ADS-B equipped, it will show up as a facility name like "Potomac", etc. If you are VFR without ADS-B and ask for flight following and are assigned a code, the same thing should happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulM Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 If the plane has ADSB out or regular Mode S then Flightaware will have every flight VFR/IFR/Flight following. Time (EST) Latitude Longitude Course Direction kts feet Rate Reporting Facility Mon 21:51:01 Departure (Everett, WA) @ Monday 18:51:01 PST FlightAware ADS-B (KPAE) to view those you need a flightaware account login and you must have selected "View position only flights". If you are mode C only, then your flight can only be mapped to your N number if you are IFR or VFR flight following. So, ADSB (UAT or Mode S-ES) are tracked via flightaware's own ADSB receiver network. (or relayed from the FAA) Mode S regular squitter is relayed via the FAA system, with your ICAO code so you will only be tracked when you are in range of a mode S radar site, and FA uses the ICAO code to map it to your N number. Mode C is from the FAA system and can only be correlated to your N number with an individual code and N number in the FAA computer from either IFR or VFR flight following Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolter Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 14 hours ago, Piloto said: <snip> I think a pilot would only say "going down" when he is in trouble. José I value using correct terminology. For example, I make the effort to say 5 thousand descending 3 thousand when I begin my descent. But this is a learned behavior. Certainly in the past I said "going down" without thinking about it. Interestingly, it never elicited a comment from ATC, so it likely happens a lot. @kortopates and I know of a situation with 2 pilots, one casually said "let ATC know we are going down" and that planted the seed and the other [capable and experienced] pilot called out to ATC "SoCal Appch, Mooney XXXX, we are going down". It happens -dan 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 Or somthing like this! http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4b3d8f81&opt=0 Comms are important!! -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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