GTN 650 or IFD 440?

[Tommy]

1 minute ago, gsxrpilot said:

There's no charge for the IFD100. It's a free app to download, and it connects via wifi (also free) to the IFD440.  

Search for IFD100 on youtube.com.  There are several videos that show it in operation. 

It was enough for me to cancel plans for a second unit in my plane. The one unit with the IFD100 on the iPad is almost like having a second.

On Avidyne website, it says Wifi/BT are optional on IFD 440. Or do they come with it already?

[gsxrpilot]

53 minutes ago, Tommy said:

On Avidyne website, it says Wifi/BT are optional on IFD 440. Or do they come with it already?

I've never seen one that didn't come with it. I would talk to Avidyne or the dealer you're buying from... I suggest talking to Avionics Source in Seattle... about making sure you get a unit that includes the wifi/bluetooth at no extra charge.

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, PTK said:

This is very important with the typical viewing distances in the cockpit.

The 540 display is 4.75" x 3.5" and 307000 pixels with a 5.7" diagonal. The GTN750 is 5.27"x 4.46", 6.9" diagonal and 425000 pixels.

The GTN had a bigger screen and 30% higher resolution than the IFD. This high resolution translates to a much sharper picture making the screen smoother and much easier to read. This reduces eye strain.

The 540 display is similar to the Aspen. They are just not GTN class. Just a thought.

 

How does the GTN have 30% higher resolution than the IFD?

I would think that resolution would be how many pixels there are packed into each square inch.

IFD 540

307,200 pixels / 16.625 square inches = 18,478 pixels/sq inch

GTN 750

425,000 pixels / 23.504 square inches = 18,082 pixels/sq inch

The IFD540 has 2.2% more pixels per square inch than the GTN750. Even though the Avidyne has higher resolution I would say they are the same not 30% different.

However, as you point out, higher resolution "translates to a much sharper picture making the screen smoother and much easier to read. This reduces eye strain." So based on that the Avidyne wins. 

 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, teejayevans said:

Well, then there is Avidyne’s warranty indemnity clause...is that still in the legalese?

Only if you want the free extended warranty

[Tommy]

53 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've never seen one that didn't come with it. I would talk to Avidyne or the dealer you're buying from... I suggest talking to Avionics Source in Seattle... about making sure you get a unit that includes the wifi/bluetooth at no extra charge.

http://www.avidyne.com/products/ifd/ifd440-value-compare.html 

$1300 for additional BT/ Wifi 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

http://www.avidyne.com/products/ifd/ifd440-value-compare.html 

$1300 for additional BT/ Wifi 

Actually look at it this way, they are giving you a $1300 discount if you don't want WiFI or Bluetooth. That was something they introduced to save some money on a dual installation since you only need one unit to have WiFI and Bluetooth so why pay for it twice?

[markejackson02]

29 minutes ago, Tommy said:

http://www.avidyne.com/products/ifd/ifd440-value-compare.html 

$1300 for additional BT/ Wifi 

My IFD 440 came with free wifi/BT.  I set it up to use the Stratux wireless network so the IFD440, Stratux, and Foreflight all talk to each other.

Still amazes me.

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

How does the GTN have 30% higher resolution than the IFD?

I would think that resolution would be how many pixels there are packed into each square inch.

IFD 540

307,200 pixels / 16.625 square inches = 18,478 pixels/sq inch

GTN 750

425,000 pixels / 23.504 square inches = 18,082 pixels/sq inch

The IFD540 has 2.2% more pixels per square inch than the GTN750. Even though the Avidyne has higher resolution I would say they are the same not 30% different.

However, as you point out, higher resolution "translates to a much sharper picture making the screen smoother and much easier to read. This reduces eye strain." So based on that the Avidyne wins. 

 

In these here forums we call Peter Garmin math, fuzzy math. I will say he is relentless. Might be a good person to have around we ever get attacked by a herd of zombies.

[Tommy]

You can always count on men comparing sizes of just about everything...

Size of the hands? *Cough cough*

If IFD 100 is working as advertised then I am happy to take a hit on the screen size. 

What about future upgrade of EFIS and digital autopilot? 

Has Avidyne got plan to roll out something similar to G5?

 

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

Actually look at it this way, they are giving you a $1300 discount if you don't want WiFI or Bluetooth. That was something they introduced to save some money on a dual installation since you only need one unit to have WiFI and Bluetooth so why pay for it twice?

Did they actually lower the price?

[Marauder]

7 hours ago, donkaye said:

I have not flown with anyone who has a lynx, yet.  Anyone who discounts TargetTrend either hasn't flown with it or doesn't get the concept of relative motion.  With absolute motion of most traffic sources and displays much more time needs be spent looking at traffic to see how their direction relates to your.  With TargetTrend it's instantaneous.  You can evaluate 30 targets in the blink of an eye.

Don -- I have flown with both (and still do when I fire up the GDL-39). I like TargetTrend because it does give you an indicator to show whether you are gaining on a target or if the relative motion of the target is headed in your direction. The main difference on the Lynx is the ability of the ATAS which means an aural warning. I sat through L-3's discussion on how it works and it has a pretty unique algorithm to calculate whether or not a target poses a threat. It then calls out the relative position in position, distance and whether is high or low. It is designed not to trigger false positives and will ignore planes on the ground as you are landing, etc. 

Funny story. I am literally just taking off from the avionics shop's airport and am turning crosswind to do a downwind departure out of the pattern. The ATAS triggers stating there is converging traffic at my 3 o'clock, less than 1 mile, same altitude. My first thought is that I just bought a crappy technology. My second thought was holy crap! There is a plane there. The guy was doing an extended downwind entry without talking. I have yet to have the ATAS trigger where something wasn't a threat.  

[LANCECASPER]

4 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Did they actually lower the price?

No I just made that up. Of course they lowered the price. http://www.avidyne.com/news/press.asp?release=324

[Rumblestrip]

This video is from Barron Pilot on YouTube.  He chose the 440 over the 540 on his ship because of the iPad app.  He goes through the IFD 100 app in detail here.  He also mentions at the beginning that Avidyne has a free app that lets you learn the interface of the 440 and 540.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB8zQ8KoKXI

 

[donkaye]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

The main difference on the Lynx is the ability of the ATAS which means an aural warning. I sat through L-3's discussion on how it works and it has a pretty unique algorithm to calculate whether or not a target poses a threat. It then calls out the relative position in position, distance and whether is high or low. It is designed not to trigger false positives and will ignore planes on the ground as you are landing, etc. 

 

Mine has those callouts, too, and it seems to work perfectly.  GTS 800 => GDL 88 => GTN 750/GTN 650/GMA 35c.  At the same time GTS 800 => GDL 88 => FS 210 and/or FS 510 => Aera 796/iPad.  I think I have it all...

[Tommy]

12 hours ago, MIm20c said:

@Tommy post up a picture of your panel so we can decide how best to spend the funds. 

Im starting to look at the Garmin 660 and gdl39(r).  The reason I mention this is with a 430w or 650 will give you much needed screen real estate, the adsb weather and traffic (including TargetTrend), flight plan upload to your tablet, and additional data fields.  Just a option if you are willing to mount a portable unit in the panel. 

Here it is. Historical I know! Lol. What would you keep and what you take out? Will you keep Kx175 or IC200? The ADF is above the Kt76 (not pictured) 

[wcb]

11 hours ago, Tommy said:

http://www.avidyne.com/products/ifd/ifd440-value-compare.html 

$1300 for additional BT/ Wifi 

Another reason for the 540 BT/Wifi included.

[PTK]

On 2/12/2018 at 9:03 PM, LANCECASPER said:

How does the GTN have 30% higher resolution than the IFD?

I would think that resolution would be how many pixels there are packed into each square inch.

IFD 540

307,200 pixels / 16.625 square inches = 18,478 pixels/sq inch

GTN 750

425,000 pixels / 23.504 square inches = 18,082 pixels/sq inch

The IFD540 has 2.2% more pixels per square inch than the GTN750. Even though the Avidyne has higher resolution I would say they are the same not 30% different.

However, as you point out, higher resolution "translates to a much sharper picture making the screen smoother and much easier to read. This reduces eye strain." So based on that the Avidyne wins. 

 

Resolution refers to size of the display width x height with the unit being pixels.

The screen resolution of the GTN 750 is  600 x 708 or 424,800 pixels. That of the IFD 540 is 640 x 480 pixels or 307,200 pixels.

307,200/424,800 = 0.72. 

Due to its larger screen the GTN has 30% higher resolution than the IFD. This reduces eye strain. The GTN is the perfect resolution for the typical viewing distances in the cockpit imo. 

 

[Cruiser]

Once again "fake news".

As described above all the fancy math says is the surface area of the screen is larger on the GTN750. 

It has nothing to do with how sharp the display is. Although the screen size is actually larger, the viewing area of that screen is limited by what is allowed to be displayed. Both the GTN750 and IFD 540 have fixed panels on the left and right of the screen for things like COM freq, Waypoints, Speed etc.

Not all the surface area of the screen is used in the same way so trying to measure the absolute screen size and make a comparison is USELESS. You need to compare the areas that are used for the same purposes.  

[LANCECASPER]

On 2/14/2018 at 5:16 AM, PTK said:

Resolution refers to size of the display width x height with the unit being pixels.

The screen resolution of the GTN 750 is  600 x 708 or 424,800 pixels. That of the IFD 540 is 640 x 480 pixels or 307,200 pixels.

307,200/424,800 = 0.72. 

Due to its larger screen the GTN has 30% higher resolution than the IFD. This reduces eye strain. The GTN is the perfect resolution for the typical viewing distances in the cockpit imo. 

 

According to your math the GTN has 28% more screen - no one is debating that. What we all want though is the sharpest screen with the best clarity.
I've flown with both units and they look the same to me., but again using the numbers in your first post, even though they are close, the Avidyne has slightly better pixel density - therefore is sharper and more clear.

 

The GTN also has more data fields which you can't get rid of, especially if you have the remote audio panel. The Avidyne has much more flexibility in setting up how many fields you want and where you want them. This means you get to decide how much of your screen is map and how much is covered with data fields.

You can't go wrong with either of the two units - they are both excellent.

 

[bradp]

Can you get your hands on an example of both units?  They’re both fantastic for different reasons. 

If you like buttons primarily and the ability to do touch go with the Avidyne. 

If you like touch screens and like the option of buttons go garmin.  

If you want more FMS style interface go Avidyne, if you like the UI from 

One other consideration that I would not have thought so important until now - maximize your connectivity.  You’ll have other dodads that want to talk to your navigator via RS-232 airinc or WiFi/Bluetooth etc.  Connectivity will be a limiting issue for these navigators.  Get one with a lot of ports.  

[ShuRugal]

On 2/12/2018 at 8:35 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I've never seen one that didn't come with it. I would talk to Avidyne or the dealer you're buying from... I suggest talking to Avionics Source in Seattle... about making sure you get a unit that includes the wifi/bluetooth at no extra charge.

I would hazard to guess that WiFi and Bluetooth hardware is present in every IFD440, the only thing you are getting for the extra $2,000 is an "unlock" of some kind.

 

If (when) I find myself upgrading to an IFD440, my conversation with the sales associate will include "I'm not paying $2,000 for you to unlock the wifi/BT on this device, but if I have a device with usable WiFi and Bluetooth, I may be inclined to buy some of the shiny gadgets that make use of it in the future."

[rpcc]

Can someone tell me why either of these is better than a 430w/530w garmin with flightstream and an ipad assuming you have a adsb transponder.   

Honestly, the first time I saw a 750 I almost laughed - like someone paid 20k to install this in their plane.  Its just too small.  

I fly with a 12 inch ipad pro and foreflight and I'm having a hard time finding the value in either of these boxes.

Why not just cut a panel and embed your ipad of choice and use your current garmins - assuming that's what you have?

 

[LANCECASPER]

46 minutes ago, rpcc said:

Why not just cut a panel and embed your ipad of choice and use your current garmins - assuming that's what you have?

The one who asked doesn't have current Garmins

[ShuRugal]

58 minutes ago, rpcc said:

Can someone tell me why either of these is better than a 430w/530w garmin with flightstream and an ipad assuming you have a adsb transponder.   

Honestly, the first time I saw a 750 I almost laughed - like someone paid 20k to install this in their plane.  Its just too small.  

I fly with a 12 inch ipad pro and foreflight and I'm having a hard time finding the value in either of these boxes.

Why not just cut a panel and embed your ipad of choice and use your current garmins - assuming that's what you have?

 

My 430 is a plain 430.  the WAAS upgrade is very nearly as much as the trade-in price for the IFD440, and the IFD440 will let me monitor standby audio, as well as being a more modern (read: compatible) device.

[gsxrpilot]

4 hours ago, rpcc said:

Can someone tell me why either of these is better than a 430w/530w garmin with flightstream and an ipad assuming you have a adsb transponder.   

Honestly, the first time I saw a 750 I almost laughed - like someone paid 20k to install this in their plane.  Its just too small.  

I fly with a 12 inch ipad pro and foreflight and I'm having a hard time finding the value in either of these boxes.

Why not just cut a panel and embed your ipad of choice and use your current garmins - assuming that's what you have?

 

I traded in a 530 on an IFD540. There's no comparison between the two boxes. The comparison is well documented on the Avidyne website so I won't list it here. I'll just say a lot of thought went into my panel and the 530 to 540 upgrade was one of the best decisions I made.