Total Noob to Mooneys. Looking for advice.

[captgregger]

Hi All, 

I just joined these forums. My background, seasoned airline pilot, getting back into GA to expose my kids to it an see if the aviation bug bites them. Kids are 10 and 15, boy and a girl. Both tell me they want to become a pilot so it's time for Dad to expose them to it and see how where their motivation lies in that area. 

I spent around 3-4 months researching every GA aircraft under the sun. I put a deposit on a new-build experimental plane but I am number1180 in line, so that puts me out about 5 yrs. I like the Mooney for it's economics/ value fo rmoney above all else. 

Can someone point me to a thread or sticky as to how to get schooled up on all the "gotchas" of the Mooney? I will obviously pay a A&P to do a prebuy so I could use some advice as to how to get that done. Again, new back to GA. 

My budget is high as $100k for this purchase but since I will probably eventually go with a twin I was thinking to maybe find an older model Mooney (not sure which one is best) for much less money, with a high time motor, then pay for the new engine, and keep both a single and a twin in my posession. 

Thanks for any advice. 

Also, if there's anyone in the Los Angeles area looking for a partner in a Mooney I'd be open to that as well. I set up a partnership between a few airline buddies at work but none want to buy a Mooney. Whereas I'm pretty deadset on the brand so I decided to go it alone.

[Bob_Belville]

@captgregger

Welcome to MS! There are quite a few airline pilots hanging out here, usually with older Mooneys.

There's a great deal of info on this site, try the search function. 

The most popular "Vintage" Mooneys are the M20C, M20E, and M20F. 

The Cs have a "bulletproof" O360 Lycoming - carbureted 180 HP. 

The Es share the same body as the Cs but have a 200 HP, fuel injected IO360.

The Fs are Es with a longer cabin adding 5" of leg room to the back seat and 5" more room in the baggage are.

While there's probably $10,000 or more difference in "average" price between those models from C to E and again from E to F, you'll find a lot of overlap depending upon mods, equipment and condition, engine time, etc. 

Browse Controller and Trade a Plane to get a feel for what listers feature as important. 

Good examples of these older models are getting harder to find and once you get focused you'll want to be able to act fast when I good one becomes available. Really nice vintage planes probably don't make it to the ads, they sell here or via word of mouth. 

http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm

[Hank]

Welcome, Capt! You'll enjoy flying a Vintage Mooney.

Check The Mooney Flyer (www.themooneyflyer.com) for CFIs near you; MAPA (www.mooneypilots.com) and the Mooney Safety Foundation (www.mapasafety.com) are other great groups.

 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, cap’n.

Kids Love Mooneys. At least in my house.

The youngest person to fly solo around the world used his dad’s Mooney...  

Best regards,

-a-

[EricJ]

Depending on what you mean by "older model" Mooney, for your budget you may also want to look at J and K models.    A J is basically an F with a bunch of updates, such as improved aero, etc.   A K is essentially a J with a six-cyl Continental and a turbo.   You can get a very nice example of either for well within your budget.

[Jim Peace]

1 hour ago, captgregger said:

Also, if there's anyone in the Los Angeles area looking for a partner in a Mooney I'd be open to that as well.

What is the small airport closest to you in LA?

 

[gsengle]

Hi Captain! As a general rule, I’d rather buy a very well loved earlier airplane than the newest one you could afford that has questionable history. That said a J model is a nice thing. Might be a stretch at that budget to find a super loved one tho... might be an F in your future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gsxrpilot]

If I was in SoCal, I'd trade you a piece of my M20K for a piece of a twin.

If you're buying your own, you won't go wrong with any Mooney C, E, F. While I think the J's and K's are the best models, $100K won't buy a really nice one. And even buying a run out engine, you'll still want the best loved, most upgraded model you can find. That will always be the best value.

I'll also mention that it will be difficult to find a C with a run out engine that is worth the asking price and cost of an engine. I love the C and owned a nice one for awhile. But the best return on investment, if buying an engine, will be an E or F.

There are several on this forum in the LA area and it might be worth getting together with them and trying on the various models. For example, @mooneygirl flies a nice E and @N9201A flies a J. @StinkBug is in your area as well with a C. None of them are for sale, but the more Mooney's you look at, the better you'll know what to look for.

[SantosDumont]

I'm looking for a partner in my F.  Too bad you're not in Vegas.  A Southwest pilot owned the plane before me.  Feel free to hit me up if you find yourself in Vegas and want to try out the F model.  The only thing that has me wanting to upgrade is getting faster than 150 kts in cruise.  But from my few experiences with sticking a O2 hose in my nose maybe it's just better to be happy down at 10.5k.

[bradp]

If it’s going to be 3-4 passengers - you’ll want something with useful load and if they are teenagers maybe a mid body.  Fs typically have the best useful loads in the fleet.  Going to be crossing the mountains or using it for local / regional travel and to show the kids what GA is all about? 

Boogeymen for Mooney’s (in general):

- service bulletin 208 (steel frame corrosion- can run a magnet trough the lower frame and inspect below the windows without too much trouble).  This can total an airframe  

- spar web corrosion (look for it in the landing gear wells, under the rear seat inspection panels and forward part where spar meets the floor.  This can total an airframe 

Other mooney specific issues ... 

- fuel tank weeps and seeps

- play in the tail

- donuts that make up the landing gear shocks 

Fortunately there are not many expensive or recurring ADs for the airframe (there is a recurrent prop hub edy current inspection for some of the vintage hartzel hubs).  Otherwise the pre purchase inspection is pretty standard.   

 

 

 

[takair]

I love my E and am hard pressed to steer you away from a Mooney, however, as the parent of a couple of teens and with teen nephews, here is a consideration:  Mooney’s are great to set the hook, but not the best trainers...especially in the eyes of your insurance company.  I have personally been considering a second airplane for this reason.  With a 15 year old, you may be more effective at setting the hook by picking up a 172 and starting them in the left seat on day 1...and right on through to PP.  Perhaps when they start building instrument time and going for commercial you go for the Mooney.  In my case, I’ve had the Mooney since before I had a wife or kids and I’m attached to it now, also, none of them have expressed enough interest to make me do pull the trigger.  I often wonder if I would have had better luck simply putting them in the left seat of a trainer and just let them do it all.  I guess you can theoretically do it in the Mooney, but some newbies (not you...the kids) may find it a little overwhelming.  I really hope you set the hook, either way!

[Guest]

This J model is for sale on the field. I imported it a number of years ago for the current owner, but don’t take care of it now.

As the local MSC I can help with a PPI and potential export.

http://www.airplanemart.com/aircraft-for-sale/Single-Engine-Piston/1981-Mooney-M20J-201/13724/

Clarence

[N9201A]

Also, if there's anyone in the Los Angeles area looking for a partner in a Mooney I'd be open to that as well.

Welcome Capt,

Not looking for a partner but I’m happy to meet for lunch or coffee somewhere in the basin. I’m a 20 year J owner, ATP/CFI, with a lot of time in various models from B to R, and happy to share my experience. There is a lot of wisdom in this forum and among our ownership.

I would also add the many Caravaners (mooneycaravan.com) to the list of extremely active and experienced Mooney pilots. Lots of great models of all vintages, with many owners who’ve devoted a lot of time and resources into their personal airliners.

As far as kids/training, I’ve got a 19-year old with lots of yoke time in our J (her first flight was at 5 weeks old). Today, she can hold formation (from the right seat) — but for landing training she was in a glider. I also made her read Langewiesche, and I think it helped...you’d have to ask her.

The info given here is good, and has their own favorite. As for mine, it’s hard to beat a J for performance per dollar. And even if you’re willing to spend more dollars, one must spend a LOT more to get a significant performance improvement.

[Yetti]

This is a good thread to read.  putting prebuy or pre buy into the search will get you hours of entertainment.

 

[jlunseth]

If you want one source to go to for good information with some detail on many models, read the articles on Mapalog, www.mooneypilots.com .  You should be able to find one for each model except the very recent ones.  The articles were written awhile ago, so some of the info. is a little dated, but it is still pretty good.

PS I just read the article on the 231, which is my aircraft.  It recommends a cruise setting at 75% Power (31” and 2500 RPM) for the factory GB engine, running at 50 degrees rich of peak.  The recommended fuel flow setting for cruise operations is 11.5-12.5 GPH.  From what we know now, that is exactly where you do not want to run a piston engine.  Many of us run LOP at 11.5 or less, or more than 13 ROP.  Longer cylinder life follows.  Many of the old POHs were like that, run em’ hot seemed to be the main theme.

Edited February 5, 2018 by jlunseth