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ForeFlight Weight and Balance


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19 hours ago, Kyoshiskip said:

Can you post your finalized W/B so I can see where I am still going wrong?

 

Don't try to overthink this. ForeFlight does 90% of the work for you.

You need 3 things:

1. N-number of your plane (easy).

2. Empty weight of your plane.

3. CG of your empty plane

Numbers 2 & 3 should be on your current W&B. If you have all 3 of those items, it should all plug in and give you what you need in FF. The real key is starting from scratch and entering only those three things. If you have an incorrect W&B in FF, delete it (swipe left) and start from scratch. Be sure to include the "N" when it asks for N-number. If you look at the screen shots I posted above and read the notes in front of each one, you can do it.

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Okay folks, thanks for the help getting this to work.  Now that it is working I am looking at the reality of flying a fully loaded C.

We have some friends that we owe a favor and they want to fly somewhere with us.  They are not obese, but they are not a small couple.  I am real close to 200 pounds clothed, my new wife is probably about 160.  The other couple are probably 200 each.  Add full tanks and a handbag or two puts me very slightly over gross, but more concerning is that it puts me REALLY close to the aft limit. 

So what say you?  How critical is the aft limit on these planes?  Do I have a little bit of fudge factor to work with?  How is the C for hauling at the aft limit?

Thanks for sharing your experience.

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8 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

Okay folks, thanks for the help getting this to work.  Now that it is working I am looking at the reality of flying a fully loaded C.

We have some friends that we owe a favor and they want to fly somewhere with us.  They are not obese, but they are not a small couple.  I am real close to 200 pounds clothed, my new wife is probably about 160.  The other couple are probably 200 each.  Add full tanks and a handbag or two puts me very slightly over gross, but more concerning is that it puts me REALLY close to the aft limit. 

So what say you?  How critical is the aft limit on these planes?  Do I have a little bit of fudge factor to work with?  How is the C for hauling at the aft limit?

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Please take Paul’s advice and meet with your CFI. Seriously.

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On 2/19/2018 at 7:59 PM, Kyoshiskip said:

Can you post your finalized W/B so I can see where I am still going wrong?

 

When are you usually around the field? I could meet up with you and run through it with you? I’m flying the Sim tomorrow night and then flying an IR lesson Thursday morning.  I’ll be at the field Wednesday afternoon/evening filling up the plane for my Thursday am flight.

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8 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

Okay folks, thanks for the help getting this to work.  Now that it is working I am looking at the reality of flying a fully loaded C.

We have some friends that we owe a favor and they want to fly somewhere with us.  They are not obese, but they are not a small couple.  I am real close to 200 pounds clothed, my new wife is probably about 160.  The other couple are probably 200 each.  Add full tanks and a handbag or two puts me very slightly over gross, but more concerning is that it puts me REALLY close to the aft limit. 

So what say you?  How critical is the aft limit on these planes?  Do I have a little bit of fudge factor to work with?  How is the C for hauling at the aft limit?

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Are you SURE of your setup? Similar weights in my C would put me roughly 50lbs over gross.  

The plane will fly, and relatively normally, as long as you’re within the limits.  It won’t climb as fast, might need more or less back pressure to lift off and may flare considerably differently.  And you’d be really surprised that that 15lb handbag in the baggage compartment makes a much bigger difference than you might expect.

as others have said, you really need to talk to a CFI (especially if you’re actually considering trying to fly past the limits to make your friends happy...)and run through the numbers with them.  You only get to make so many mistakes....

Edited by ragedracer1977
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Thanks for all the counseling.  I appreciate it.

Yes, with full tanks and this load she would be almost 100 pounds over gross.  I can leave a few gallons in the truck and take care of that although I have done a good bit of flying over gross although not in a Money.  My concern is being on the edge of tail heavy.  That could kill us.    My main question is how close can I get to the aft limit with confidence that she won’t be tail heavy.

I understand weight and balance just fine.  I am seeking Mooney specific experience from those who have flown on the edge of the envelope.  Hearing of any such experience will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all.

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Obvious things you have likely already considered:

  1. Heaviest people up front.
  2. Small bags in laps of rear passengers, if realistically possible.
  3. Review what landing W&B will be after fuel burn - closer to rear or what?

Like I wrote, probably already considered.

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20 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

When are you usually around the field? I could meet up with you and run through it with you? I’m flying the Sim tomorrow night and then flying an IR lesson Thursday morning.  I’ll be at the field Wednesday afternoon/evening filling up the plane for my Thursday am flight.

 

20 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

When are you usually around the field? I could meet up with you and run through it with you? I’m flying the Sim tomorrow night and then flying an IR lesson Thursday morning.  I’ll be at the field Wednesday afternoon/evening filling up the plane for my Thursday am flight.

I am usually at the field on weekends.  We have visitors this week but I am hoping to fly to Casa Grand for the flyin this weekend.  If we can meet sometime I would appreciate it.  

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On 2/20/2018 at 4:16 PM, MBDiagMan said:

Kyoshiskip,

if oldguys instructions don’t get it for you let me know and I will try to capture a screen for you.

I have not revisited it for awhile but I would appreciate a screen shot if you don't mind.

 

On 2/20/2018 at 4:16 PM, MBDiagMan said:

Kyoshiskip,

if oldguys instructions don’t get it for you let me know and I will try to capture a screen for you.

 

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Okay Kyo, I posted as you requested, but now that I look at it I don’t think it will help.

I made progress when I simply deleted the entry I had and started over with the tail number.  If you will delete whatever you have entered and start over following oldguys instructions I think you can get it to look like mine.

 

hope this helps

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9 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

Okay Kyo, I posted as you requested, but now that I look at it I don’t think it will help.

I made progress when I simply deleted the entry I had and started over with the tail number.  If you will delete whatever you have entered and start over following oldguys instructions I think you can get it to look like mine.

 

hope this helps

Skip and I checked out his foreflight W&B yesterday.  He still needs to adjust it to his specific plane, but we got the bulk of the problem figured out.  Foreflight had everything in feet, but his entries were all in inches.  

Edited by ragedracer1977
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On 3/3/2018 at 7:41 AM, ragedracer1977 said:

Skip and I checked out his foreflight W&B yesterday.  He still needs to adjust it to his specific plane, but we got the bulk of the problem figured out.  Foreflight had everything in feet, but his entries were all in inches.  

Thank you for your help.  It was good meeting you in person.  Like I said, we need to set up a Mooney flyin some time in the near future.  How did Sunday go?

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Even with everything within the lines...

There are a few things to consider.

The flight controls will feel very different from the usual light load.

The reaction to the flight controls will be very different from the usual load.

The Go Around will be different from the usual light load...

The stall characteristics... etc. etc.s

Now that you know everything is in order... have you considered loading the seats and baggage compartment with bags of sand or something similar?  Tied down properly.

This way you know exactly how you are going to perform without having to explain everything to your passengers.  You can tell them you simulated the loading and actually flew the plane.  you are familiar with the effects...

Why experiment with passengers..?  

There is a picture around here of the Fifth passenger. That was a real bad experiment.  Find ways to err on the safe side. They didn’t know they were in trouble until they left Ground effect.... pretty late in the planning to find out.

Then know your DA performance numbers, compare to your runway length... right?

There is no hard line where the performance envelope ends.  The plane will struggle more to stay flying as you approach and exceed the charted limits.  As the OAT rises, you end up accidentally outside the envelope.  Trees appear magically larger in the windshield.  Somebody will have recorded the last transmission...

can you tell how I feel about this one?

PP experience only, but not a fan of edge of the envelope calculations and taking off. Not a CFI...

Get the experience, and then use that experience with people... I gained more experience over time. Took notes. Compared other flights.  Large people in the back of a plane may be very uncomfortable on their first flight.  It may be best to keep their first flight a very short hop.  Then fuel up for a longer flight if they are still willing...

Trying to be helpful, but it is a sticky kind of situation... :)

I didn’t consider loading my plane until all the prep flights were satisfactory.  I am really good with WnB calcs. If you are not sure of your WnB calcs, that is a don’t fly opportunity...

If you are really sure of your WnB calcs, that is just a starting point... really knowing your plane’s performance in different weather is important. Especially as temps are rising...

Best regards,

-a-

 

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1 hour ago, Kyoshiskip said:

Thank you for your help.  It was good meeting you in person.  Like I said, we need to set up a Mooney flyin some time in the near future.  How did Sunday go?

Checkride is next Sunday.  I’ve been flying the wheels off the airplane.  Did 2.4 tonight.  Honestly, this was the first flight where I felt like i knew what I was doing lol.  I didn’t finish up with my shirt soaked through with sweat.  I did 2 perfect DME arcs, flew a VOR approach to kcgz for the first time (we’ve always done the ILS) and looked up on short final perfectly aligned. Flew a great ILS into KIWA, a VOR-C into SDL and a RNAV 25L into DVT.   My altitudes were perfect, needles perfectly centered, I got my holds right.  A few more flights to go before the ride.  I’m feeling pretty good!

Edited by ragedracer1977
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Brice,

with so much info stuffed in your head up to this point... how many days does it take before the sharpness fades?

If you take a week off from studying and flying, does it fade?

Are you in constant study and review mode until the Check ride?

Good luck! Just wondering...

Best regards,

-a-

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4 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Brice,

with so much info stuffed in your head up to this point... how many days does it take before the sharpness fades?

If you take a week off from studying and flying, does it fade?

Are you in constant study and review mode until the Check ride?

Good luck! Just wondering...

Best regards,

-a-

I know a month is too long.  When my throttle cable broke, we rescheduled my checkride and didn’t really get any IR practice in for about that long.  It showed on the next flight.

also, I just realized.... today is the 1 year anniversary of earning my PPL!

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